Deep cycle agm battery replacement?

I do not know this for a fact but I was told and have since believed, most all brands of batteries are made by the same few manufacturers. Just packaged and branded differently. Depending how they fare on QC determines what level they are sold as......... ie... "silver", "Gold" and "Platinum" are the same battery just the level they passed QC.

Lead Acid, AGM deep cycle being separate categories within the manufacturing process.
 
Had good reviews on Interstate batteries.
The narrow dimensions of the LC battery carrier makes choices for "bigger or Better" concerning.
The Toyota TrueStart battery that I was referring to has the same case size (LN3) as the original OEM.

The reason I was looking at the Toyota battery is that, for whatever reason, I've never been able to find the Land Cruiser listed on any of the "battery finder" sites (e.g. Interstate, AutoZone, Napa, etc.) Although my LC is a '25, I even searched for the 2024 Land Cruiser (since it's been around longer), and still couldn't find any listed batteries for it. (I last looked several months ago, so possibly things have changed since then.) Even on the Optima website, they don't list a battery for the Land Cruiser (even tho the Optima DH6 fits).

BTW, I've seen reports on this forum where Toyota dealers have replaced the original OEM (when it was determined to be defective) with either an upgraded flooded cell, or in some cases an AGM...

1760050880701.webp
 
I do not know this for a fact but I was told and have since believed, most all brands of batteries are made by the same few manufacturers. Just packaged and branded differently. Depending how they fare on QC determines what level they are sold as......... ie... "silver", "Gold" and "Platinum" are the same battery just the level they passed QC.

Lead Acid, AGM deep cycle being separate categories within the manufacturing process.

There has certainly been a lot of that- generic batteries being relabeled for various brand “manufacturers.”

There are still some true manufacturers selling batteries under their own label. Northstar only does relabels now. The parent company for Optima makes many many batteries, but the distinctive case they use for their own is unique. Odyssey still makes their own batteries. I believe XS Power does also.
 
Last edited:
I do not know this for a fact but I was told and have since believed, most all brands of batteries are made by the same few manufacturers. Just packaged and branded differently. Depending how they fare on QC determines what level they are sold as......... ie... "silver", "Gold" and "Platinum" are the same battery just the level they passed QC.

Lead Acid, AGM deep cycle being separate categories within the manufacturing process.
Someone should start a thread about Lithium batteries like Antigravity since they're a cut above lead acid batteries. .
 
Someone should start a thread about Lithium batteries like Antigravity since they're a cut above lead acid batteries. .
Yea -- but I think the LC battery charging profile issue will be even worse with a lithium battery...
 
Yea -- but I think the LC battery charging profile issue will be even worse with a lithium battery...
Where is the engineering documentation to support the claim that different charging voltages are required for different 12V batteries? I haven't seen it from Odyssey or Optima before, but there are other manufacturers. . Does the claim come from the companies selling aftermarket chargers?
 
Where is the engineering documentation to support the claim that different charging voltages are required for different 12V batteries? I haven't seen it from Odyssey or Optima before, but there are other manufacturers. . Does the claim come from the companies selling aftermarket chargers?
This isn't specific engineering doc, but there are lots of references about charging profiles on the web... Here are two -- the first from Interstate Batteries (which makes batteries for LOTS of brands) covers charging Lithium batteries in particular, and the second is an AI overview on the topic of charging profiles.

1760129302269.webp

1760128668064.webp
 
Where is the engineering documentation to support the claim that different charging voltages are required for different 12V batteries? I haven't seen it from Odyssey or Optima before, but there are other manufacturers. . Does the claim come from the companies selling aftermarket chargers?
Also, Optima offers up this on their website...

1760129703963.webp
 
I’m am going to show you my ignorance. I built in a permanent LiFePo power bank in the T4R. There’s a diode fix that allows the stock alternator to charge my lifepo starter battery at the correct voltage. Then have a dc-dc charger connected to the starter battery to charge my storage power. Works perfectly.

So couldn’t we remove the lead acid starter battery and do something like this? alternator- dc/dc charger- lifepo starter battery? Wouldn’t the lifepo battery, with starter capability, then be charging at the appropriate voltage??

I’m already embarrassed I’m asking. My smooth brain thinks this works.
 
I’m am going to show you my ignorance. I built in a permanent LiFePo power bank in the T4R. There’s a diode fix that allows the stock alternator to charge my lifepo starter battery at the correct voltage. Then have a dc-dc charger connected to the starter battery to charge my storage power. Works perfectly.

So couldn’t we remove the lead acid starter battery and do something like this? alternator- dc/dc charger- lifepo starter battery? Wouldn’t the lifepo battery, with starter capability, then be charging at the appropriate voltage??

I’m already embarrassed I’m asking. My smooth brain thinks this works.
Welcome to the asylum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SJR
I’m am going to show you my ignorance. I built in a permanent LiFePo power bank in the T4R. There’s a diode fix that allows the stock alternator to charge my lifepo starter battery at the correct voltage. Then have a dc-dc charger connected to the starter battery to charge my storage power. Works perfectly.

So couldn’t we remove the lead acid starter battery and do something like this? alternator- dc/dc charger- lifepo starter battery? Wouldn’t the lifepo battery, with starter capability, then be charging at the appropriate voltage??

I’m already embarrassed I’m asking. My smooth brain thinks this works.
My understanding is lack of alternator on the LC250. LC250 I imagine already uses some form of a DC-DC converter to step down high voltage battery to charge the 12V battery. Current discussion as far as I can tell is whether the step down voltage is sufficient to fully charge an AGM deep cycle (fully charged voltage is higher than a normal lead acid). Also smooth brain, so I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong. Discussion also seems to have shifted to what actually is “fully charged voltage” for an AGM deep cycle.
 
Last edited:
Don’t agm and lifepo (is there a shorter acronym?) need the same charge voltage?
 
My understanding is lack of alternator on the LC250. LC250 I imagine already uses some form of a DC-DC converter to step down high voltage battery to charge the 12V battery. Current discussion as far as I can tell is whether the step down voltage is sufficient to fully charge an AGM deep cycle (fully charged voltage is higher than a normal lead acid). Also smooth brain, so I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong. Discussion also seems to have shifted to what actually is “fully charged voltage” for an AGM deep cycle.
So, maybe just a tweak in the software could make the proper charging of an AGM do-able…
 
Not really understanding the fuss........... I've had my AGM installed and working/charging for many months without an issue. I couldn't tell you if it's proper or not and really don't care. What I do know, the AGM has made a big difference in day-to-day putzing around with the door/hatch open (I did find it's limit of 3 days.....lol) vs the OEM battery where one day with the door/hatch open resulted with a "no start".
 
Not really understanding the fuss........... I've had my AGM installed and working/charging for many months without an issue. I couldn't tell you if it's proper or not and really don't care. What I do know, the AGM has made a big difference in day-to-day putzing around with the door/hatch open (I did find it's limit of 3 days.....lol) vs the OEM battery where one day with the door/hatch open resulted with a "no start".
If it's a AGM deep cycle that requires voltages that the LC isn't providing it will work well until it doesn't. To each their own, I'd like to switch to a deep cycle agm but going to wait until there's a solution to bump the voltage reliably and safely. I don't want to have to rely on a external charging source.
 
For perspective, an AGM deep cycle battery capable of higher resting voltages and greater reserve than your typical battery won't need you to rely on an external charging source each day- depending on the charge deficit it sees in your application when charged solely by the vehicle, it will require a top-up on an external charger periodically (maybe once per month depending on usage). It is easy to see with a multimeter exactly when that will do some good. The main reason for that top off to full charge is to avoid running in a partial state of charge for extended periods. Use at PSOT impacts AGM batteries as well as standard flooded lead acid batteries.

You can install an AGM deep cycle and use it just like you would with any other battery, but the down side is that partial state of charge will prevent it from lasting as long as it potentially could. Would it still outlive a flooded lead acid battery? Quite likely, but it might not last 5,6,7,10 years as it would when topped off. If you are paying big bucks for a really strong AGM deep cycle battery, it seems a shame to allow it to fail earlier than it otherwise would.
 
I have read all the pervious posts and I understand the math, I understand knee drop voltage. Just don't understand the fuss..........
 
Has anyone tried a decent Marine deep cycle battery as a replacement.

The extra taps are great for running aux type features.
 
I have read all the pervious posts and I understand the math, I understand knee drop voltage. Just don't understand the fuss..........
You’re correct, AGM batteries have been used with ordinary vehicles’ charging systems for demanding competition and military applications for several decades and outperforming other conventional 12v batteries . A few folks have apparently managed to out engineer the battery manufacturers and identify vehicle charging issues that everyone has apparently missed all these years. A complementary philosophy is buying cheap Costco batteries that need to be replaced every 2 years as the “best” solution for having the freshest and strongest battery.
 
Last edited:
Supporting Vendors View all →
Air Down Gear
Back
Top Bottom