LC250 CV joints - Should I consider upgrading

[Bad1975]

The Ed Martin video, Toyota DIY 2.5" lift kit for the 4Runner does include heavier duty, longer front CV axles as part of the kit.
Ther video compares them to the stock set.
Longer maybe wont fit a stock height vehicle???

They aren't any longer, they just allow more travel by design of the double action Rzeppa inner joint vs the Tripod on the other. Looks like the outboard Rzeppa is bigger and the axles shaft between the two joints also looks to maybe be larger diameter?

Interesting they have a different profile lower control arm ball joint adapter to correct the steering stop engagement points that some have issues with post lift. Overall that looks like a great OEM kit up front, only thing it doesn't address is the swaybar endlink remains OEM length adding preload to the bar just like all other lifts available. Wonder if or when someone will come out with a replacement for those? I think the tie rod ends are overkill though, nothing to suggest longer are needed even at 3" of lift.

 

[grandsons]

I'm going the Lexus road

With the GX550 half-axles, why DOJ instead of Tripod? Good question, because on paper/lab testing the Tripod wins on both counts, better static/fatigue resistance and better efficiency (lower sliding friction, more of it rolling than sliding).


So why not use it then? Because that low sliding resistance is exactly what bites you at extreme angles (though the effect shows up at any angle off straight) and under high torque. The roller pivoting in the groove generates axial vibration, a well documented failure mode.

Push articulation and torque together and the Tripod's advantage turns into a liability.

 

[Calokie]

And reasonable to think more will break as the LC universe gets more miles, ages & is used more off road. Surprised how fast owners are scrambling for HD shafts after 1 video. Reminds me of the plywood aisle in a Home Depot before a hurricane.

Yea I’d like to know if it’s related to wear/miles

I'm going the Lexus road View attachment 72185
With the GX550 half-axles, why DOJ instead of Tripod? Good question, because on paper/lab testing the Tripod wins on both counts, better static/fatigue resistance and better efficiency (lower sliding friction, more of it rolling than sliding).


So why not use it then? Because that low sliding resistance is exactly what bites you at extreme angles (though the effect shows up at any angle off straight) and under high torque. The roller pivoting in the groove generates axial vibration, a well documented failure mode.

Push articulation and torque together and the Tripod's advantage turns into a liability.

sweet, keep us posted, please do some side by side pictures if possible.

 

[Area 51]

I was thinking a simple upgrade, not lifted, which is the demon generator.
Over all, i am going to wait for the Toyota up grade kit. The entire subject is too new and unclear.
Thx.

 

[grandsons]

sweet, keep us posted, please do some side by side pictures if possible.

Nice story for the members of Tinkerer's Adventure, where you can see many CV's side by side

 

[grandsons]

For those who kills theirs Tripods, replace the inner DOJ joint, with a bit grease, a boot and good hope. Situation not tested yet.

 

[WeGo250]

I'm currently at about 2.5" - 2.75" of lift in the front, running BP 51's preload maxed with about 225 - 250 pounds of front end gear, a diff drop, and no CV problems. I've wanted to get right to the 3" mark up front and do not like the idea of having my preload maxed, so I tried something......

A few months ago (I know this is not recommended, was just an experiment) I added in a 1" strut top space in the front and backed off quite a bit of preload getting me to about 3.25". Well, the CV's HATED it! Accelerating around my home, stop lights up to 45mph or so and they were shaking like mad. I jacked the vehicle, removed the front wheels and w/ jack stands got my front suspension sitting at driving height and it was clear that the inners specifically were binding.

I pulled out a bit more preload, now right to about 3" of lift, and everything seemed fine. I then tried to tow my trailer and under acceleration, the front would lift just enough to get back into that binding and shaking zone.

Ultimately I removed the spacers and took the struts back to their maxed preload. Everything else worked, tires cleared, still plenty of travel etc. so I think the front can handle that 3" of lift no problem, with a diff drop, but I'm really considering the Trail Hunter CV's hoping that the inner Rzeppa style will allow for the articulation needed.

 

[Calokie]

For those who kills theirs Tripods, replace the inner DOJ joint, with a bit grease, a boot and good hope. Situation not tested yet.View attachment 72189View attachment 72190

When do you plan to install the GX 550 CV Axles?

 

[grandsons]

When do you plan to install the GX 550 CV Axles?

Once I've decided between electric and pneumatic front diff lock not before October.

 

[RideWithYanu]

Once I've decided between electric and pneumatic front diff lock not before October.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the locker as you figure it out. That’s the upgrade I’ve been the most excited about.

 

[DanPauls]

The classic way to break a CV (or even a conventional solid axle) is to have a spinning wheel suddenly grab traction. The shock loading exceeds the design loads. In the video he was trying to climb a slope that was loose rock/gravel with lots of wheel spin. I haven't replayed the video, but it wasn't obvious that his DS wheel grabbed a rock. I imagine that the MTS is programmed not to suddenly lock up a wheel (which would also shock load the axle), but anything is possible. He did say that Toyota covered the repair under warranty and, as already mentioned, they were sending the part off for analysis. It's possible that there was a metallurgical flaw or a pre-existing crack that lead to the failure in a situation where a normal part would not fail.

 

[Calokie]

Once I've decided between electric and pneumatic front diff lock not before October.

thats a nice delima to have

 

[Area 51]

Once I've decided between electric and pneumatic front diff lock not before October.

Have you explored, condiered what a fornt locker will do to the auto drive functions?
If i was sure of this i would do a front locker soon. I am not clear at all what it does in the auto drive modes?
I have ARB air lockers on 3 other wheelers currently in excellent condition and service with great success. Front and rear.
How did you decide to go locker on the front end?

 

[sweet5ltr]

Definitely does not need a front locker. I have rarely needed to use the rear locker, outside of water and creek crossings which I do out of habit. ATRAC in the 1958 model is phenomenal, and yes, you must be in 4L to use it.

I do own vehicles with F&R lockers as well, and they need it due to a far, far less advanced TC system. These SUV's can do obstacles in stock, all season tires that you would need F&R lockers for in a Jeep Rubicon 10-years ago.

I think you're going to run into a lot of issues running a front locker in a modern vehicle with full-time 4WD designed with ATRAC / MTS. You will run out of clearance, long before you run out of traction.

 

[Area 51]

Definitely does not need a front locker. I have rarely needed to use the rear locker, outside of water and creek crossings which I do out of habit. ATRAC in the 1958 model is phenomenal, and yes, you must be in 4L to use it.

I do own vehicles with F&R lockers as well, and they need it due to a far, far less advanced TC system. These SUV's can do obstacles in stock, all season tires that you would need F&R lockers for in a Jeep Rubicon 10-years ago.

I think you're going to run into a lot of issues running a front locker in a modern vehicle with full-time 4WD designed with ATRAC / MTS. You will run out of clearance, long before you run out of traction.

Exactly what i have discovered to date.
Agree, very suspicious it ruins the base design and gets very questionable regarding value and effectiveness. I can see where it might break things as well.

 

[phxdsrtrat]

The classic way to break a CV (or even a conventional solid axle) is to have a spinning wheel suddenly grab traction. The shock loading exceeds the design loads. In the video he was trying to climb a slope that was loose rock/gravel with lots of wheel spin. I haven't replayed the video, but it wasn't obvious that his DS wheel grabbed a rock. I imagine that the MTS is programmed not to suddenly lock up a wheel (which would also shock load the axle), but anything is possible. He did say that Toyota covered the repair under warranty and, as already mentioned, they were sending the part off for analysis. It's possible that there was a metallurgical flaw or a pre-existing crack that lead to the failure in a situation where a normal part would not fail.

When I first stated off roading my father beat this into my brain. That was on a '66 Jeep with conventional solid axles but the same principal applies. Spinning your wheels and then gaining sudden traction can break things. Not saying this is what happened here or that Toyota may have covered the repair because the driver is a fairly well known youtuber. But, food for thought for those that haven't considered this.

-Curtiss

 

[Calokie]

Guess at this point we should build a list of essential tools for
“Trail side CV Axle replacement”
List of necessary sockets breaker/pry bars etc not to mention CV Axle Trail spares

 

[RideWithYanu]

Definitely does not need a front locker. I have rarely needed to use the rear locker, outside of water and creek crossings which I do out of habit. ATRAC in the 1958 model is phenomenal, and yes, you must be in 4L to use it.

I do own vehicles with F&R lockers as well, and they need it due to a far, far less advanced TC system. These SUV's can do obstacles in stock, all season tires that you would need F&R lockers for in a Jeep Rubicon 10-years ago.

I think you're going to run into a lot of issues running a front locker in a modern vehicle with full-time 4WD designed with ATRAC / MTS. You will run out of clearance, long before you run out of traction.

I’ve experienced the opposite - many times where the rear isn’t getting any traction locked or otherwise, and the front can’t pull the truck out because one of the front wheels is spinning. Real world scenario is climbing out of a soupy bowl. I very much look forward to the front locker upgrade.

 

[jay3253]

Okay, hear me out. The LX700h has front and rear lockers. Both axles are the same width as our 250s (they also have the same mounting points). Find one and put them on the 250. Then add Trailhunter CVs. Always thinking me.

On a more serious note Tinker in one of his videos shows the diff drop in almost never needed. I also don't want the Trailhunter CVs for strength just articulation and binding. I have a 2.5in lift in the front and 1.5 in the back. For me it would just be added insurance.

 

[grandsons]

How did you decide to go locker on the front end?

I'm use to vehicle with front lockers, despite the very good Toyota traction control.

Have you explored, condiered what a fornt locker will do to the auto drive functions?

What do you mean by auto drive?