Please do not trust a word of what ChatGPT tells you. It’s worse than worthless.
LC250 CV joints - Should I consider upgrading
- Thread starter G0ebs
- Start date
Hmm, I want to know the part number for those beffy axels.
I tried to locate the P/N but have not been able to nail them down.
And do those beefy axles have rzeppa or tripod inner joints?
Dissent is on Portals completely different, the portals actually reduce the torque on the CV joints for the low price of 20k and changing the oil in each one every 5k.
If you bust a CV on the trail with no spare the best course back to civilization is the remove the assembly separating at the inner joint and removing the rest from the vehicle. You need the diff side installed to keep the fluid inside.
I'm guessing because he had fluid on the ground his broke on the shaft itself inward of the inner joint and either pulled the CV axle out of the diff or broken in a manner that it could no longer retain the diff fluid, this is common on the 200 and 300 series and where they break the most on those. Full trail replacement is often not possible in that scenario as getting the broke off part out of the diff is very hard with nothing protruding and the spring clip still in place holding it into the diff.
For other Toyota series aftermarkets actually make a diff plug section to allow complete removal of a CV on the trail to cover any CV axle failure scenario. If I were to break one, I'd convert that one into one of these as a back up solution for quick trail fixes.
I'd much prefer to break a CV over risking the diff, 2WD and 3WD is better than NoWD and CVs are much cheaper.
If you bust a CV on the trail with no spare the best course back to civilization is the remove the assembly separating at the inner joint and removing the rest from the vehicle. You need the diff side installed to keep the fluid inside.
I'm guessing because he had fluid on the ground his broke on the shaft itself inward of the inner joint and either pulled the CV axle out of the diff or broken in a manner that it could no longer retain the diff fluid, this is common on the 200 and 300 series and where they break the most on those. Full trail replacement is often not possible in that scenario as getting the broke off part out of the diff is very hard with nothing protruding and the spring clip still in place holding it into the diff.
For other Toyota series aftermarkets actually make a diff plug section to allow complete removal of a CV on the trail to cover any CV axle failure scenario. If I were to break one, I'd convert that one into one of these as a back up solution for quick trail fixes.
I'd much prefer to break a CV over risking the diff, 2WD and 3WD is better than NoWD and CVs are much cheaper.
Dissent added the Tacoma CVs well before they did the portals. Did the Rubicon on the Tacoma CVs before they added the portals.
I assume those Tacoma CVs Dissent changed to are part numbers 43410-AK020 RH / 43420-AK020 LH, for the Off Road/ Trailhunter/ TRD Pro. Tacoma CVs might be similar to the TRD Pro/ Trailhunter CVs 4runner too. I'd guess that those 4runner CVs were not even available when Icon recommended the CV change with the lift.
That said, if I recall correctly, once Dissent did the portals, I think they got rid of the lift from their Icon suspension and retained basically stock geometry.
EDIT: by removing lift, I mean removing the lift itself, not the Icon suspension, as explained in this video:
I assume those Tacoma CVs Dissent changed to are part numbers 43410-AK020 RH / 43420-AK020 LH, for the Off Road/ Trailhunter/ TRD Pro. Tacoma CVs might be similar to the TRD Pro/ Trailhunter CVs 4runner too. I'd guess that those 4runner CVs were not even available when Icon recommended the CV change with the lift.
That said, if I recall correctly, once Dissent did the portals, I think they got rid of the lift from their Icon suspension and retained basically stock geometry.
EDIT: by removing lift, I mean removing the lift itself, not the Icon suspension, as explained in this video:
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They still have the ICON lift installed, I saw it in person at Cruise Moab. As part of Fordyce destruction they broke the rear diff locker and had to replace that as well and bent the rear upper control arm brackets to boot.
This just shows upgrading the axles transfers the break point to the more expensive harder to trail fix parts.
Longfields are nice kit, but at $2500 a set to your door and making the diff the weak point I'll stick with OEM, same goes for portals but just much greater price and the unavoidable wheel poke induced by them, plus the additional required maintenance these are only realistic for a trail only rig for a dedicated serious off roader that sees allot of use each year IMO.
This just shows upgrading the axles transfers the break point to the more expensive harder to trail fix parts.
Longfields are nice kit, but at $2500 a set to your door and making the diff the weak point I'll stick with OEM, same goes for portals but just much greater price and the unavoidable wheel poke induced by them, plus the additional required maintenance these are only realistic for a trail only rig for a dedicated serious off roader that sees allot of use each year IMO.
Exactly my concern with upgraded axles - transferring that force to the diff. What piqued my interest was the additional travel they claim with the Tacoma CVs - any thoughts on that? I assume they aren’t substantially beefier, but maybe that’s a bad assumption.
It’s a search engine that compressed 1.5 hours of forum searching into 2.5 minutes of overview. It actually did a good job
Rzeppa only the LC250 has the Tripod that I’m aware of
The only way they would provide additional travel would be if the stockers were at their travel limit and are the limiting factor in further down travel and if the difference in joint design allows more travel which it does, but this is not the case on a stock 250 or 3" and below lifted 250 as if it were we'd be seeing blown CVs all over the place, the shocks are still the limiting factor in down travel even with the extended length shocks I'm running. I'd also say diff drop is important if staying OEM and doing any suspension lift (if you offroad and reach suspension articulation limits regularly) as any increased angle on the CVs is putting them closer to their failure point.
All that said the 250 uses inner Tripod and outer Rzeppa joints vs the 550/Tacoma/4R offroad trim use a double offset inner and Rzeppa outer which can handle greater articulation and will hold up to torque better than it's counterpart due to being further from its articulation limits or bind. Would be nice to know what the shaft diameters are between the two and whether or not the joint sizes are the same?
What you do likely get is a joint that is further from reaching articulation bind and therefore less likely break, if the axle shafts and joints are of the same size and material it really isn't going to be significantly stronger. Tripod joints of the same or slightly smaller size of a Rzeppa are stronger than Rzeppas but have less angular articulation, the Tripod joint allows lateral movement (plunge) were as a standard Rzeppa doesn't. The major drawback of the Tripod is it can be easily pulled out of its cup when at full suspension articulation and too much torque is applied to fast (slip to full traction). Rzeppa joints are much harder to seperate and won't reach bind at the same angle of the Tripod and the double action joint that replaces the Tripod is much less likely to seperate in the same situation the Tripod would.
I've rebuilt both types and the Tripods come apart easy, the Rzeppas are quite challenging to get apart and put back together and the spring clip is the weakest part of that joint style. Lots of vehicles have Rzeppas on the wheel side and Tripods on the diff/trans side. Funny thing is the My Tundra and 250 have The Tripod inners while our AWD Volvo uses a Double action inner Rzeppa!
I suspect Toyota chose the Tripod joint for the 250 and other platforms purely from an Economy standpoint as they have less rolling resistance and are cheaper to manufacture,
If one were to upgrade, the ideal upgrade IMO would be double action inners with the same outers with axle shafts of the same diameter and material as the Originals as this would eliminate the Tripod issue and not be so significantly stronger to be likely to transfer the damage to the diff. If Toyota would sell you just the inner joint with spring clip, boot and boot clamps that would be the ideal I'd think.
Thanks Bad, as always really appreciate the wealth of knowledge.
The opposite of my experience and I strongly disagree but I’m sorry your expectations haven’t been met. I’d encourage you to find a vehicle you don’t have to force yourself to like - perhaps a Rubicon is the vehicle for you.
No, just listen critically, research sources, and be sensitive to information that doesn’t seem to make sense. Same thing we should do with the internet in general and with people too.
Buy a rubicon and call it a deathwable/catch on fire/ replace engine @ 34k kind of day... sprinkled with rubber duckies
But yea to address the elephant in the room, toyotas and CVs Axles (Drivetrain components not suspension).... hence the discussion of his thread
100%
as i mentioned Chat GPT confirmed my previous findings, unfortunately none of us can prove ChatGPTs statement is incorect in relation to this subject
No harm done Sparkle
as a toyota fanboy who suckles on the toyota koolaid teet
I agree with your statement. The CV axle break in the mentioned video is unacceptable and hopefully isolated, i'm not trying to make it up "Soup Bowl" in my LC250 but ill mod it within reason for my intended purposes.
Until more is known, many here might be jumping the gun ready to upgrade & switch to HD CV shafts. This LC in the video appears as a 30K mile vehicle used for a lot of off road testing, likely more than many of our LCs. There could have been a multitude of contributing factors.
Most preventative thing you can do is closely inspect your inner & outer CV boots carefully during the tire rotation. Especially after recently being on a trail or going through water. On a GX460 I found a very small sling line where just a little of that stinky CV grease had been getting thrown out on LS inner CV boot. Went to replace boot & found inner CV had play in it. If you leak anything out, something else is going in & the joint isn’t going to like it for very long.
I look @ CV joints as fuses in an electrical system. I’d rather one break than the ring & pinion, axles, transfer case or transmission.
Lot less expensive.
Most preventative thing you can do is closely inspect your inner & outer CV boots carefully during the tire rotation. Especially after recently being on a trail or going through water. On a GX460 I found a very small sling line where just a little of that stinky CV grease had been getting thrown out on LS inner CV boot. Went to replace boot & found inner CV had play in it. If you leak anything out, something else is going in & the joint isn’t going to like it for very long.
I look @ CV joints as fuses in an electrical system. I’d rather one break than the ring & pinion, axles, transfer case or transmission.
Lot less expensive.
@Mtn40
Here is the part list for the Genuine Toyota 2.5" TRD Suspension Lift Kit (Hybrid variant is PTCCY-89320):
Source: Any updates on OEM 2.5" TRD Suspension Lift?
Courtesy of Ed Martin
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