LC 250 Hate = It’s REAL

[DeepDive]

If I told you the new Land Cruiser had a V8 that made 326 hp and 465 lb-ft of torque. Would you call the engine small and tiny sounding?

As to it’s not a real Land Cruiser…. What does that even mean… ? What’s more important for off roading… HP or Torque? As to the new off road assistant systems. Pretty sure it has gotten a few off road newbies out of trouble.



200 Series (2008–2021): The Benchmark "Older" Land Cruiser

• Engine: 5.7L 3UR-FE V8
• Horsepower: 381 hp @ 5,600 rpm
• Torque: 401 lb-ft @ 3,600 rpm
• Notes: Paired with a 6- or 8-speed automatic transmission and full-time 4WD. This setup delivered strong low-end pull for off-roading and towing (up to 8,200 lbs), though fuel economy was modest at 13–17 mpg.

New Land Cruiser

• · Performance: 326 hp and 465 lb-ft of torque, paired with an 8-speed automatic transmission and full-time 4WD with low-range gearing.
• · Fuel Economy: EPA-rated 22 mpg city / 25 mpg highway / 23 mpg combined— a big improvement over the prior V8's 13–17 mpg.

I don’t know about you but I’m lucky to get 19.5 mpg. Pretty sure the old V8 never made 17 mpg either.


So, your kinda right, this is not a “real” old Land Cruiser, It’s been reengineered… Better in a lot of ways, no so in others… Ie. Gas Tank and Interior storage… and lying about the Mpg.

Just enjoy the extra Torque and the lack of turbo lag!

Well put. If this was a V8 that provided the same numbers, everyone would be fine with it and it’d be a “real” LC. Perception over reality.

 

[DeepDive]

I live in a smaller town in Wyoming at the edge of a mountain range. People drive 4WD vehicles here. We have a Toyota dealer. Over that past few weeks, I've noticed a ton of new Land Cruisers, which is interesting because the dealer rarely has any on the lot. I also noticed that a fellow I know must have traded in his Land Rover LR4 for a new LC. He'd been driving Rovers for many years, even though the dealer is 400 miles away. The new 4Runners are trickling in and showing up as well. 4Runners are very common here too. A few of the more well-heeled folks had/have LC200s, some Lexus GX versions (that dealer is also 400 miles away), and a fair share of Sequoias as family haulers.

My take on all this is that, in an area where off-road and bad-weather vehicles are a necessity, the LC250 is doing very well.

Yes, the fuel economy is horrible; my F-150 Tremor is better. Ditto the small fuel tank. However, on a long road trip, it isn't that difficult to fill up every time one stops for food or a bathroom.

Lastly, I have no idea why the social media folks are criticizing the engine power or the nanny electronics. All new vehicles have the nanny electronics, all with varying degrees of annoyance. As for power, the LC250 has 465 lb-ft of torque. It pulls up hills, even at high altitude, without an issue. Sure the engine sounds terrible, but it works.

Where I live in Cali, the Land Rover seems to be the official car of Newport Beach. Very nice interiors. I doubt 5% make it off road, but you do have the pleasure of spending $15k for a brake job when they need replacing at 20,000 miles. I’m much more comfortable throwing fishing and dive gear in the LC than I would be in a LR, which seem like comfortable designed grocery haulers to me.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

You can't argue with the highway comfort of a nice big numb, quiet, plush Range Rover....but not worth 40K more and that is comparing 2021 v 2025 so its closer to 50K now.....reason I drew the line in the sand. I just don't like L460/461 looks either.

 

[Esquire]

You can't argue with the highway comfort of a nice big numb, quiet, plush Range Rover....but not worth 40K more and that is comparing 2021 v 2025 so its closer to 50K now.....reason I drew the line in the sand. I just don't like L460/461 looks either.

And as being the prior owner of three different Range Rovers, 2 of which I purchased new and one two yrs old, the DEPRECIATION of Range Rover / Land Roveris absolutely insane. The stories of massive drop in value are more than true.
And don’t even try to sell one if the factory warranty is finished….just as well turn it into a work around the house truck.
Land Cruiser, on the other hand, has arguably the best resale value of any SUV on the market.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Exactly, I avoided the depreciation hit on my Maserati GTS because I bought it new, 3yrs old for 46% off. But the Range Rover thay I paid sticker -1k for right before the supply dried up..... I got lucky and sold it with 48K miles for 45% . Shame as it was immaculate but at least I got rid of it before another winter which would put it over 60K miles and drop value to the mid 30s at 5 years old. Great friend bought it for his wife who absolutely adores it. (AND NOT BECAUSE ALL 3 OF MY RANGE ROVERS AND 3 JAGUARS WEREN'T 100% RELIABLE, seriously....you gotta know which ones to buy...avoid the V8s) Some brands can't outgrow their perception and social media is like a bunch of sharks to these brands, often with NO real reason.
Aside but a last gen (?LC200) went by me this AM and confirmed why I never looked at them....Awkward styling in an ungainly way. JUst doesn't have the stance of the LC250 which has no need for butched out wide wheels etc that hurl rocks at the cars behind etc.....JIMHO

 

[Esquire]

Aside but a last gen (?LC200) went by me this AM and confirmed why I never looked at them....Awkward styling in an ungainly way. JUst doesn't have the stance of the LC250 which has no need for butched out wide wheels etc that hurl rocks at the cars behind etc.....JIMHO

Agreed. As much as I tried, I just couldn't get myself to like the LC200 enough to buy one even with dealers knocking $15k off the MSRP.

The LC250 is a significantly better looking and performing Land Cruiser and looks like nothing else on the road.

 

[Area 51]

 

[URJ200]

First off this is not a troll thread, because I personally own a LC 250 First Edition that I purchased in October.

Before buying my LC 250 First edition I did some/a lot of research via YouTube and written articles and I test drove 3 different LC 250’s, plus I test drove a GX 550, so in fairness I knew what I was getting myself into. I did a fairly in depth review on my LC 250 Likes and dislikes probably 1 month ago. And my stance has not changed. I pretty much really like/love the LC 250 but there are 2 things I really hate = fuel economy and 18 gallon tank. Everything else I really like. I know it’s better off road than the 200 series LC and I personally likes the looks better.

Here comes the unfortunate downfall of the LC 250 and unfortunately it really is not fair, but it’s the world we live in today and that undoing is YOUTUBE and SOCIAL MEDIA. Let’s be honest the social media automotive industry, and I call them social media automotive industry for a reason because they are not journalists like they think they are, has really hurt the LC 250, along with Toyota/lexus brand in general. If You where to take a full day and just do a lot of research via YouTube, written articles, and utilize other sources like article comments, the general consensus from reviewers and consumers is far more negative than positive. For Example lets look at the common summary they you will hear from most consumers and reviewers of the LC 250 =

1) not a real Landcruiser.

2) cheaply built compared to the LC 200 and other SUV’S.

3) The GX is far better and is the REAL Landcruiser.

4) terrible engine choice to put in a Landcruiser

5) This is a Prado = light duty cheap Landcruiser

6) The vehicle sounds “ Tinty” and cheaply made

7) Ground clearance is terrible and it is better on the LC 200, although after climbing underneath mine I found that my lowest ground clearance is 10 inches with no lift and BFG KO3’S 275 R 18’S. I guess I can not read a ruler or maybe I got lucky with the build on mine.

8) Fuel economy is terrible.

9) small fuel tank

10 ) Terrible acceleration

11) way to expensive for a cheaply made vehicle.

12) How could Toyota put a Rav 4 engine in a Landcruiser.

Do I agree with sentiments ? NO. The only points I agree with are the fuel economy and the small fuel tank. But unfortunately social media , especially YouTube, has really done damage to the LC 250 in terms of initial reputation and perception. It’s even to a point where LC 200 owners literally piss on LC 250 owners and GX 550 owners do the same. It’s really a shame because it is actually just dividing the brand even more and slowly eroding the existing values and potential resale values in the toilet. But unfortunately this social media hate isn’t just on the LC 250 , it’s on a lot of Toyota/lexus products today = LX 600, GX 550, TUNDRA, TACOMA, and the new 4 Runner . They are all getting trashed badly and although you would not think it could effect future values of vehicles, it most certainly can and it does today, and resale value has always been a strong point of Toyota/lexus. I will illustrate how perception and YouTube effected 1 particular Toyota model, in this case for the better. The LC 200. Prior to Covid you could walk into a Toyota dealership and if they had a new LC 200 on the with a MSRP of $ 86,000.00 you could walk out of the dealership purchasing that vehicle for around $ 77,000.00. Once covid hit and Toyota announced the end of the V-8 Landcruiser and rumors started to surface about a possible Hybrid Landcruiser a 2020/2021 Landcruiser with 40,000 miles was selling for $ 85,000.00 and guess what, people are actually bragging about paying that price for a “ REAL LANDCRUISER” . By the time these people purchase a warranty and put cool looking off road tires on their “ real Landcruiser “ they have $ 100,000.00 in a used 40,000 mile LC 200, but the LC 250 at $ 58,000 to $ 76,000 ( first edition ) is to expensive. Hence the power of social media.

If social media can effect a presidential election like it did in 2020, it can most certainly effect vehicle values. I’m kind of a nerd with stats, but what really boggles my mind is a company like Ford rolls out Recalls literally every other day and in a lot of cases there is better value in buying a Ford vehicle than a Toyota/lexus and just think 5-10 years ago you never would have seen this. And you very rarely see a negative review on a Ford vehicle, especially the Ford performance variants like Raptors and mustangs. Amazing.

I know that’s a long thread but after looking at some values and actual numbers in correspondence with timelines with the recent Toyota/Lexus hate, you know the old saying, NUMBERS DON’T LIE.

I actually think Toyota/lexus still builds a quality vehicle and in most cases builds a much better vehicle than the big 3, but resale and value and social media reviews are telling a different story. Personally I think Toyota should have named the LC 250 the new FJ cruiser, I think that would quieted a lot of the mass hysteria because unfortunately a lot of United States consumers do not have a clue how important the LC 250 prado is to the Landcruiser lineage and history.

Although I will have to honestly say if I was to reverse the timeframe to October and do it all over again , I probably would have opted for a Ford Raptor R just based on value for dollar because there is no comparison. Unfortunately Toyota/Lexus vehicles do not hold the same values or desirability as they did pre COVID and I really don’t think they ever will again.

Yes, YouTube and social media has become extremely powerful.

From what I have gathered from the general attitude towards the 250 is that it would not get a fraction of the negativity if Toyota had been forthcoming with the consumer about what the Land Cruiser 250 is exactly and its position in the Land Cruiser hierarchy. Instead, in certain markets including the US, they branded it simply as the Land Cruiser. You have the right to disagree as a 250 owner but, in the US particularly, this is quite transparently a marketing move targeting people who have very little knowledge or exposure to the flagship station wagon. The average guy (Tacoma, Jeep or 4Runner owner maybe?) just knows that the Land Cruiser is "awesome" and "bullet proof" and has always been too expensive for many to afford. Toyota knows that most of these people have no idea what a Prado is and have likely never even sat inside a flagship Land Cruiser, given how rare and expensive they are in the US. This is quite evident in the demographic of 250 owners as you are seeing some, but overall, very few people moving from a 200 to a 250.

Their strategy has worked quite well, though, as I think we're at 60,000+ 250s sold so far. They've turned a brand that has always been under the radar in America into a household, everyman SUV label that could likely become as common a sight on the road as a 4Runner. Toyotas job is to make money, and they've found a very creative way to expand their market share in this vertical.

I wouldn't worry about values too much as long as there isn't any Tundra-scale recall on transmissions, although it's a bit alarming the number of cases we're seeing on this forum, which is a smallish sample size. I think the 250 will hold it's value as well as any of the other similar Toyota 4x4s like the 4Runner and Tacoma.

 

[RideWithYanu]

From what I have gathered from the general attitude towards the 250 is that it would not get a fraction of the negativity if Toyota had been forthcoming with the consumer about what the Land Cruiser 250 is exactly and its position in the Land Cruiser hierarchy. Instead, in certain markets including the US, they branded it simply as the Land Cruiser. You have the right to disagree as a 250 owner but, in the US particularly, this is quite transparently a marketing move targeting people who have very little knowledge or exposure to the flagship station wagon. The average guy (Tacoma, Jeep or 4Runner owner maybe?) just knows that the Land Cruiser is "awesome" and "bullet proof" and has always been too expensive for many to afford. Toyota knows that most of these people have no idea what a Prado is and have likely never even sat inside a flagship Land Cruiser, given how rare and expensive they are in the US. This is quite evident in the demographic of 250 owners as you are seeing some, but overall, very few people moving from a 200 to a 250.

Their strategy has worked quite well, though, as I think we're at 60,000+ 250s sold so far. They've turned a brand that has always been under the radar in America into a household, everyman SUV label that could likely become as common a sight on the road as a 4Runner. Toyotas job is to make money, and they've found a very creative way to expand their market share in this vertical.

I wouldn't worry about values too much as long as there isn't any Tundra-scale recall on transmissions, although it's a bit alarming the number of cases we're seeing on this forum, which is a smallish sample size. I think the 250 will hold it's value as well as any of the other similar Toyota 4x4s like the 4Runner and Tacoma.

In what way was Toyota not forthcoming about “what the 250 really is?” I mean, I know a lot of USA-based station wagon owners don’t like that their preferred variant of the Land Cruiser lineup isn’t offered (other than Lexus version), but that’s not any kind of deception by Toyota. They determined that the core Land Cruiser variant (the Prado) was what would be better-received by the USA market, and their bet proved very true.

I think the real reason there’s a lot of bad attitudes among enthusiasts is because enthusiasts always get butthurt over a big new change (I includ myself in that butthurt in many cases). We saw this when the 100 came out, then again when the 200 released.

 

[URJ200]

No problem. But I will tell you this in fairness, it is a great vehicle and I think you would be happy with it overall, but if you are somebody who puts a premium on value for dollar or resale value you might want to look elsewhere because unfortunately and unfairly I do not believe Toyota/Lexus reputation or resale value is ever coming back. It’s not just the Landcruiser, it’s the entire Toyota brand with a few exceptions = Camry, Rav 4, highlander, and the new Prius these Toyota models are still very highly sought after so if value or resale value is important to you I would look elsewhere because Toyota trucks and SUV’s are in the toilet right now thanks to YouTube and social media.

I picked up a Prius recently to keep the miles off my other vehicles and it's been an absolute tank of a little car.

 

[GrayBeard]

I think a lot of the feelings towards the 250 stem from what one's first exposure to / image of a Land Cruiser was. Having been introduced to LC's with a J40, and then seen Prados, 70 series, and even Hilux's overseas, the 200 Series never fit "my" image of a Land Cruiser. And there's no "right" or "wrong" opinion.

 

[URJ200]

I think a lot of the feelings towards the 250 stem from what one's first exposure to / image of a Land Cruiser was. Having been introduced to LC's with a J40, and then seen Prados, 70 series, and even Hilux's overseas, the 200 Series never fit "my" image of a Land Cruiser. And there's no "right" or "wrong" opinion.

I would agree. The 200 is definitely the most unassuming of the Land Cruiser family by far. I was talking to an author friend of mine who is quite familiar with the 200 as a combat veteran in Navy Special Warfare. He described it as "an iron fist wrapped in a velvet glove".

 

[Sugarloafer80]

+But again. We are only talking a couple thousand butthurts per year for the past decade or so........J250 has blown that out of the water very quickly. I saw absolutely zero deception by Toyota.
Frankly, the last generation J200 land Cruiser grew beyond what I would have considered proper off roader material in a VERY similar way the size increase of a full on Range Rover (L405) was more of a land yacht than the Range Rover Sport/Discovery size vehicles that were now the size of a prior gen Range Rover that was known for MANY years. I remember the size of the land Cruiser in the 1990s and it is MUCH closer to the j250 than the J200 IMHO.
Vehicles always off my list based on excessive girth were Land Cruisers, Big lexus version,Navigators, Tahoe, Yukon, Expedition, Suburban, Sequoia, etc.

URJ sounds like a big 3 plant.......Ford has a record number of recalls, GM motors are imploding like clockwork yet he thinks Toyota is worse still???HMMMM, Let's keep it real folks No one is perfect...again the social media sharks......

 

[URJ200]

.
Frankly, the last generation J200 land Cruiser grew beyond what I would have considered proper off roader material in a VERY similar way the size increase of a full on Range Rover (L405) was more of a land yacht than the Range Rover Sport/Discovery size vehicles that were now the size of a prior gen Range Rover that was known for MANY years. I remember the size of the land Cruiser in the 1990s and it is MUCH closer to the j250 than the J200 IMHO.
Vehicles always off my list based on excessive girth were Land Cruisers, Big lexus version,Navigators, Tahoe, Yukon, Expedition, Suburban, Sequoia, etc.

Yes I think you’re correct. The 200 is quite big compared to the 250. It’s 4.4 inches wider (about the length of an iPhone 16 Pro) and 1.2 inches longer (the average peanut shell).

 

[BlueCruiser]

If the LC250 resale values are really as bad as some are claiming then people should ditch the idea of buying a new base model 1958 or Bronco and snap up a more fully featured, gently used Land Cruiser PP or FE.

As the saying goes, their loss is your gain

 

[DubDub]

Yes I think you’re correct. The 200 is quite big compared to the 250. It’s 4.4 inches wider (about the length of an iPhone 16 Pro) and 1.2 inches longer (the average peanut shell).

Don’t forget the 200 lbs lol, it was a whole person heavier and therefore a tank in comparison!

 

[Pierac]

I would agree. The 200 is definitely the most unassuming of the Land Cruiser family by far. I was talking to an author friend of mine who is quite familiar with the 200 as a combat veteran in Navy Special Warfare. He described it as "an iron fist wrapped in a velvet glove".

What makes this LC most unassuming.... ??? Is it the measly 326HP or perhaps the shitty 465Lb of torque? What the hell were they thinking?

If only you were on the design team... then maybe... we could get some freaking combat... back into this velvet glove!

Dump Japs!!!

 

[URJ200]

What makes this LC most unassuming.... ??? Is it the measly 326HP or perhaps the shitty 465Lb of torque? What the hell were they thinking?

I think maybe you thought I was referring to the 250. Read my post again, maybe?

Dump Japs!!!

Right?

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Yes I think you’re correct. The 200 is quite big compared to the 250. It’s 4.4 inches wider (about the length of an iPhone 16 Pro) and 1.2 inches longer (the average peanut shell).

Then to your point, why all the BS about deceiptful practices. Can't have it both ways. Moving past mere dimensions it is 300-500lbs heavier. and that is only because of the weight of the hybrid battery packs. If youwere in a non hybrid market it would be 500-800lbs lighter. That's a lot of peanuts...............The folks only getting 18mpg on an LC250 were probably getting 12-14 mpg on an LC200........again that's a lot peanuts.

Anyone that tries to dump a vehicle in 6-12 months is in the absolute steepest part of the depreciation curve so their claims show a significant level of ignorance to be blunt. Base "1958" models seems to be plentiful thus there lower resale values as well v how many of us had to order /wait for intransit Premium packaged vehicles.

A killer whale has amazing abilities but I wouldn't want to drive one................or a Hummer H1 for that matter.

 

[URJ200]

Don’t forget the 200 lbs lol, it was a whole person heavier and therefore a tank in comparison!

Absolutely insane, right? I mean, the 1.87 kWh traction battery can't weigh more than... what? 20lbs? Maybe 120 lbs?