Fuel - Premium only?

[Sugarloafer80]

I know that going higher won't get any advantage but in here 91 is the minimum available. and 95 is what came recommended from factory for the non-hybrid for our specs.

As someone above just informed me about that 95 RON is 91 in the US.

Guess what 91 RON equals????--->87.
Again, how in the world did they do an 87 tune and a 91 tune and get EXACTLY the same specifications??? I WILL NOT GLOSS over the elephant in the closet. All this other information is great, but that bold printed line has not been answered. I do not believe in coincidence.......
FYI, I run premium 90+% of the time, and have just experimented for 1 750 mi round trip. Inconclusive due to too many variables.

 

[Slippers]

DI engine isn’t going to leave much deposits on intake valves. It’s direct injected into cylinder.

You are mistaken, my good sir. Port injection washes the valves, while direct injection does not, leading to buildup that eventually has to be blasted off with walnut media (or similar).

 

[Mopper]

DI engine isn’t going to leave much deposits on intake valves. It’s direct injected into cylinder.

Go ahead & use your avgas - have fun w/ lead wiping out O2 sensor & cat

You cannot tune a Toyota ECU. Toyota can, & very rarely does (Tundra Performance Package). They use a closed system. All your so called tuners are putting interruption circuits between a sensor & faking the ECU reading that signal.
Not a tune.

Pretty sure Costco is having a big run on all this tin foil from all the conspiracy hats yall are sitting around making.

I wear a size 7-3/4. Big old melon head needs at least a roll of heavy gauge aluminum foil for recommended protection.

 

[GrayBeard]

Guess what 91 RON equals????--->87.
Again, how in the world did they do an 87 tune and a 91 tune and get EXACTLY the same specifications??? I WILL NOT GLOSS over the elephant in the closet. All this other information is great, but that bold printed line has not been answered. I do not believe in coincidence.......
FYI, I run premium 90+% of the time, and have just experimented for 1 750 mi round trip. Inconclusive due to too many variables.

I read the manual as saying 91 (implying AKI) with an explicit statement of 96 RON, which I think equates to 91 or 92 AKI.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

I don't care if someone runs Diesel, Kerosene, regular, Alcohol, Premium, av gas, Tier 1,2,3,4, whatever. I do care which vehicle was specced correcly and which one was not....4runner or LC.....that alone tells us everything else. Technically, someone could make an actual false advertising case out of this.

 

[RideWithYanu]

I don't care if someone runs Diesel, Kerosene, regular, Alcohol, Premium, av gas, Tier 1,2,3,4, whatever. I do care which vehicle was specced correcly and which one was not....4runner or LC.....that alone tells us everything else. Technically, someone could make an actual false advertising case out of this.

Acknowledging that none of us really knows the answer, what’s your theory on why they have different fuel recommendations? I’m a simple guy that doesn’t want to think too much about what gas I’m using, so I just use what the manufacturer says, but it is a head scratcher on why the T4R and TLC with same drivetrain have different fuel recommendations.

In other words, let’s turn this thread into conspiracy theory land!

 

[retread]

One of the hold backs that I have had regarding the LC is the need for only burning Premium grade Fuel. Has anyone tried to use 87 Octane or a mix of regular 87 with say, a 1/2 tank of premium? This engine is identical to the the 4runner Hybrid I just dont understand why Toyota requires premium grade fuel.

You either use all premium or all 87 don’t mix. You will not notice anything. Doing it. 87 does have a lag on acceleration you will start to notice like the transmission is in a higher gear and needs to downshift . I have no knowledge if it does damage .

 

[wpage]

You could compare this to options on riding in sand on the beach. Some folk like 15 psi, others 20 psi, and lazy bones who just set the push button for sand and hope for the best !
So do as you please and see if you get stuck !!

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Acknowledging that none of us really knows the answer, what’s your theory on why they have different fuel recommendations? I’m a simple guy that doesn’t want to think too much about what gas I’m using, so I just use what the manufacturer says, but it is a head scratcher on why the T4R and TLC with same drivetrain have different fuel recommendations.

In other words, let’s turn this thread into conspiracy theory land!

Finally, someone asks!!!!!!

My theory is that, based on the few folks that have dynod these motors, the 4runner specs are for regular and are indeed ~325/465.
Our LC has closer to the numbers reported in the dyno testing (not in front of me but ~374), and these are the results one gets for premium. That is my theory. Not sure if they were trying to bolster 4 Runner(likely has a higher profit margin) or downplaying LC. The higher end buyer will more readily opt for premium, the slightly more economy minded buyer goes with regular. 1958 buyers are right in the middle.
So, my gut is that the tunes are identical!
Any more than this and it gets really speculative. like Toyota using us (consumers) as guinea pigs for real world engine durability, marketability, leaving headroom for 1st round of updates to specs when vehicle has the usual year 3-5 mild facelifts etc.......I can list numerous examples of this gamesmanship over the years. Say after 3-4 years, LC sales start to slip....great time to release specs for the next year say 350/485. With the long lifecycle of the LC at year 6 another upgrade to say 375/495 could occur......tunes never change.......but sales stays strong. Wiley folks in the automotive business.....highly cost effective. ECUs stay the same so no testing needed.

 

[lcoverlandaz]

Have not tried it with the lc but with a Tacoma. Had definitely lost some power it seemed like but other than that, nothing. Didn’t throw any errors or anything like that

 

[PDPete]

Have not tried it with the lc but with a Tacoma. Had definitely lost some power it seemed like but other than that, nothing. Didn’t throw any errors or anything like that

The Tacoma doesn't claim to require "premium" fuel in the manual though, does it?

 

[katekebo]

ECUs stay the same so no testing needed.

LC and 4Runner have different ECUs
LC - 89666-60X20
4Runner hybrid - 89666-60X10
4Runner non-hybrid - 89661-35Q30
Same hardware, different software (lookup tables to be specific). Lookup tables determine ignition timing, valve timing and fuel delivery (direct vs. port injection).

 

[Sugarloafer80]

And they get the same numbers......any other components that would be involved with ECU programming that are on one vehicle, but not the other. Modes, drivetrain communication with different AWD systems??? But, this is some evidence, finally.So the 2 we look at are 89666-60x20 and 89666-60x10. Core number same, but variants.....by 1 digit....Dick tracy on the scene. Time for input from Sherlock and Perry.......I gots ta know man!

 

[t3lcfe]

Crazy!
This topic is going to pass 2050…Probably go beyond our lifetime and NO 100% Conclusion / Agreement….What for ?

As over 30 years of Engineer and company leader, I involved/ designed / managed products with our specific/clearly specs to cover our company assets/ reputations (law suit avoidance…)
Bottom line, consumers feel free to practice/ use on their own decisions, but can’t blame on the manufacturers / products

Just do whatever you want…
All explanations, arguments, non-reliable proofs are useless and do not convince anyone except ourselves/yourself !
Move on and happy LC

 

[katekebo]

There is one implication of using Regular vs. Premium. Low probability, but real.
Let's say your engine fails catastrophically while under warranty (for whatever reason). If Toyota finds out that you are / were using Regular gas instead of Premium, they will have the right to refuse warranty and the engine replacement will be on your dime. Even if you argue that the failure isn't related to the fuel, you knowingly used "wrong" gas in your car, in direct contravention to manufacturer's specifications. Toyota clearly spells out "Premium fuel only", not "recommended" (look at the sticker on your fuel door). You can try to fight it with your cheap, small office lawyer against Toyota multimillion dollar legal machine, but you will lose.
I am personally aware of a case in which a car owner lost a transmission replacement case under warranty because he put 265/60-18 off-road tires (and a 2 inch lift) on a Highlander, while the manufacturer specs called for 245/60-18. Initially Toyota authorized the dealer to replace the transmission under warranty , but a Toyota tech came to the dealer to confirm the diagnostic and spotted the tire size difference. Toyota claimed that the oversized tires caused excessive load and wear on the transmission. They didn't have any issue with the lift, but the tire size was the deal breaker. The owner tried to fight it through the DA office and hired a lawyer, but the judge dismissed the case because "the door jamb sticker clearly states 245/60-18 tires, case closed".

 

[RideWithYanu]

Crazy!
This topic is going to pass 2050…Probably go beyond our lifetime and NO 100% Conclusion / Agreement….What for ?

As over 30 years of Engineer and company leader, I involved/ designed / managed products with our specific/clearly specs to cover our company assets/ reputations (law suit avoidance…)
Bottom line, consumers feel free to practice/ use on their own decisions, but can’t blame on the manufacturers / products

Just do whatever you want…
All explanations, arguments, non-reliable proofs are useless and do not convince anyone except ourselves/yourself !
Move on and happy LC

It’s ok for people to enjoy discussing something you do not.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Again its not about the fuel..every time I think we get past being cheap using regular, it comes back up. .It's about the real output variances....325 v 374 if that really is difference between running the different fuels, unless you are grandma, ~50 hp is hard to pass up...if only for that 1 pass. Eventually someone will crack the codes...byw, you CAN tune a Toyota motor directly. Did it to my last Lotus 2GRFE. +65 HP not too shabby.

 

[GR8Santini]

My experience with an authorized Toyota reflash on ‘25 Tundra’s Engine ECU makes me lean that our LC’s probably get very specific Engine ECU mapping for the LC parameters & suspect Tacoma/4Runner get their own.

A reflash was required after installing the OE TRD Tundra Performance Package components. The flash was certainly specific on the Tundra with 12 different ECU CAL ID (flash) choices (see table). Installation kit included gas tank stickers & glove box placard recommending to run Premium. Without the flash the kit’s new (2) TRD CAI air flow causes CEL to come on. Flash supposed to improved HP a bit, but driving I can say torque was better out of the hole, improved throttle tip-in, drivability & better shift points. The package is locked down now only available ordering it as option on new Tundra . Parts system doesn’t let you order easily.

View attachment 67769

 

[cvx5832LC]

Octane.. the new oil thread

 

[basicxj]

Have not tried it with the lc but with a Tacoma. Had definitely lost some power it seemed like but other than that, nothing. Didn’t throw any errors or anything like that

Lower than optimal fuel octane typically won't throw a CEL, but it will dial back power so as to avoid detonation conditions.

I ran premium non-ethanol in my Jeep for the first five years I owned it because the lack of ethanol made more power and fuel economy went up. The higher concentration of detergents didn't hurt either. The same performance/mileage increase would likely have been observed if a lower octane non-ethanol fuel was available in my area but it wasn't.

As the pandemic caused fuel prices to spike, I became an expert on pinching pennies at the pumps. Even though the Jeep was reputed to run just fine on regular, it ran better on mid-grade and both returned poorer mileage compared to non-ethanol as there is less energy in ethanol blends compared to straight gasoline. When I threw a tank of premium non-ethanol in again periodically, that engine would run smoother after an adjustment period, made more power and mileage crept back up towards what I was used to for the majority of that tankful. For the most part I stuck with the mid-grade after about 2021 and just got used to poorer fuel economy. It would use up to 17.8L per 100 km around town, making the Land Cruiser look pretty darn good.