Fuel - Premium only?

[Sugarloafer80]

BY definition, 91 octane is premium and as a matter of fact, it is what those recommendations are always based on. There is a reason some tuners can give you a nice HP bump by mapping for 93 octane like it is on my quad.
You make the call, IMHO if you are happy with 89, run it. but, prove it to yourself. Run a long trip both ways on 87 and get mileage . Be aware of winds which REALLY affect this lovely brick. Do it again on 93. You may be surprised ! BTW it does not have to be 4-5 mpg. Think 2-3 mpg increase on premium neutralizes any saving ...you are 100% correct about mileage dropping in winter. And Maine is FAR more significant than your locale. (my ancient Montero could eek out 15mpg in summer and often dropped into the 12s in winter). This correlates nicely with my mileage NOT increasing on the last few much warmer spring drives because I was trying regular........hmmmm. Thanks......makes me want to drive it again but LC sleeps comfortably covered till July.

 

[PDPete]

I may have missed it in the thread, but do LCs in RON markets have the same language as US market?

I'm going to assume no...the owner's manual I quoted from before was specific to the North American (US & Canada) market.

I'm sure there's similar language, however other markets get completely different engines and powertrains than we do here...so any recommendations for fuel would be based on that....which in some cases is Diesel.

 

[TrailWhale]

Me every time my wife drives off in the cruiser and I realize the gas tank is almost empty...

 

[D-mac]

BY definition, 91 octane is premium and as a matter of fact, it is what those recommendations are always based on. There is a reason some tuners can give you a nice HP bump by mapping for 93 octane like it is on my quad.

"Premium" can include octane ratings from 90-94 depending on region/refineries from what I have noticed. 95 octane and up is "race" gas.

 

[SJR]

The LC is heavier/box shape and full time 4wd vs Tacoma and Four Runner. So engineers would tune the ECU for the differences and spec >91 octane for output performance and efficient combustion. For those using lower octane fuel, let us know how service life goes as you approach >50k miles

Also tow rating 6000 lbs

 

[Jay’s 2025 Land Cruiser]

The actual recommendation is for "Premium" fuel. In locations at higher elevations, e.g. Denver, this will be 91 octane...in lower elevation areas, it's 93. (because the reduced air pressure at higher elevations lowers engine compression, so the lower octane fuels behave as their higher octane counterparts would closer to sea level)

I live in Maryland. Some stations do carry 91 octane along with 87, 89, and 93 (Mostly Wawa locations, for some reason)...but that's still considered a "mid-grade" fuel in this area.

Without considering whether or not premium fuel is actually necessary, if you intend to follow the recommendation, and you're in VA, then you'd have to interpret that to be 93 octane.

To add more fuel to this fire (pun intended), here's the actual language in the owner's manual:



The emphasis is mine...but to me, this sounds more like a recommendation than a requirement... however, it's a recommendation I have followed and intend to continue following...mostly out of an abundance of caution and the desire to treat this expensive vehicle with the best care possible.

Thanks because I was in Utah last week with a rental and I never saw gas higher than 91. Here in Nashville we have 93. So now I understand why

 

[rick3242]

Another thing to mention is that even though the same engine is used across different models they can be tuned and refined for specific platforms. I had a 2010 lexus ls 460 with the 4.6 I also had a tundra with the same 4.6 engine. Although the same engine the lexus required premium and the tundra does not. Those engines although the same behaved and accelerated completely different. Not to say the same is true for this thread however, I am of the beliefe that the designers and engineers know more than.........
This exact conversation use to be hashed on the lexus ls460 page. It is almost deja vu.

 

[TakaraLC]

Another thing to mention is that even though the same engine is used across different models they can be tuned and refined for specific platforms. I had a 2010 lexus ls 460 with the 4.6 I also had a tundra with the same 4.6 engine. Although the same engine the lexus required premium and the tundra does not. Those engines although the same behaved and accelerated completely different. Not to say the same is true for this thread however, I am of the beliefe that the designers and engineers know more than.........
This exact conversation use to be hashed on the lexus ls460 page. It is almost deja vu.

Related to this engines can also have the same top end numbers but different midpoint values and responses.

Like boosting and/or engine compression can be more aggressive at lower RPMs for the LC with premium fuel compared Tacoma.

Engines are more likely to knock (specifically pre-spark ignition related knock) at lower RPM. So if low RPM compression or boost is tuned differently, it would explain different requirements. Assuming the tune to be identical based off top end numbers is not reasonable.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

This would be the first vehicle I have ever seen running essentially different maps but end up with the EXACT same max numbers. More boost down low should show more of a torque peak down low, but to the exact same numbers, hmmmmm. Let the testing begin. So far, every test I have read show greater numbers than spec on premium. I LIKE THAT!

 

[roadventure]

Shallow thinking here.

I am constantly amazed by the number of owners (of ANY vehicle) that are of the opinion that they are somehow better qualified to specify fuel (oil, tires, suspension, etc.) then one of the top automobile manufacturers in the world. FYI.....Toyota is currently ranked #1 by sales.

For those of you inclined to know better I have some questions:

1. What is your budget for automobile design? (Toyota spends about one million dollars per hour on R&D)

2. What are your qualifications? (Are you an automotive engineer?, Are you a chemical engineer? Are you an electrical engineer? Are you a computer engineer?)

No need to actually answer. Any honest answer you provide will not come close to the investment in automotive design and manufacturing that Toyota makes each and every day.

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[RideWithYanu]

I am constantly amazed by the number of owners (of ANY vehicle) that are of the opinion that they are somehow better qualified to specify fuel (oil, tires, suspension, etc.) then one of the top automobile manufacturers in the world. FYI.....Toyota is currently ranked #1 by sales.

For those of you inclined to know better I have some questions:

1. What is your budget for automobile design? (Toyota spends about one million dollars per hour on R&D)

2. What are your qualifications? (Are you an automotive engineer?, Are you a chemical engineer? Are you an electrical engineer? Are you a computer engineer?)

No need to actually answer. Any honest answer you provide will not come close to the investment in automotive design and manufacturing that Toyota makes each and every day.

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Generally I agree with your point, but the chip in the armor in this way of thinking is the notion that Toyota is exclusively motivated by maximum performance and vehicle health/longevity. I’m a “just do what Toyota recommends” type when it comes to fuel, but I think there’s room for people to question that Toyota’s recommendation is the best or only choice.

Not at all meaning to fight you on this, hoping it’s just a friendly discussion. Some others here clearly have very big feelings about this topic! They will claim absolute expertise on all things automotive and insult you if you don’t defer to their claimed expertise. Those are the types I don’t have really have an interest in discussion with.

 

[EOD Guy]

I am constantly amazed by the number of owners (of ANY vehicle) that are of the opinion that they are somehow better qualified to specify fuel (oil, tires, suspension, etc.) then one of the top automobile manufacturers in the world. FYI.....Toyota is currently ranked #1 by sales.

For those of you inclined to know better I have some questions:

1. What is your budget for automobile design? (Toyota spends about one million dollars per hour on R&D)

2. What are your qualifications? (Are you an automotive engineer?, Are you a chemical engineer? Are you an electrical engineer? Are you a computer engineer?)

No need to actually answer. Any honest answer you provide will not come close to the investment in automotive design and manufacturing that Toyota makes each and every day.

​

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Well design wise I have no argument. But I am of the opinion that manufacturers will print and advertise any thing they wish (as long as it's factual and not false advertisement) and they don't publish anything that isn't going to benefit them or one of their partners.

Why do you have to subscribe to the Toyota app in order to use the equipment and software that each and every LC owner paid for? It costs Toyota nothing to allow one to use the navigation that comes standard on my LC. No need for anyone answer as any answer will be an opinion .............

 

[DubDub]

Well design wise I have no argument. But I am of the opinion that manufacturers will print and advertise any thing they wish (as long as it's factual and not false advertisement) and they don't publish anything that isn't going to benefit them or one of their partners.

Why do you have to subscribe to the Toyota app in order to use the equipment and software that each and every LC paid for? It costs Toyota nothing to allow one to use the navigation that comes standard on my LC. No need for anyone answer as any answer will be an opinion .............

I see what you did there… and I approve

 

[Blue Bear]

This should be the last word on the topic...knowledgeable experts weighing the impact of the different types of fuel. I'll keep on using premium, thanks. But, I don't have any interest in telling you what to do with your LC. Peace, out.

 

[basicxj]

Once a vehicle leaves the dealer's lot, the owner is free to follow or disregard manufacturer's recommendations. Sometimes that is for the best (like improvements in service intervals) and sometimes not. As long as the vehicle owner is OK with whatever the outcomes from doing so are and is willing to live with it, who am I to disagree.

Our sales person stressed the requirement for premium fuel when we sat down to buy the Land Cruiser, and did the same on delivery...I guess I look like someone who is going to buy the cheapest fuel possible . I was OK with that requirement, and having used top tier fuel brands for 40 years and liking how the Land Cruiser performs on ethanol-free 94 octane, I'll continue to use it unless something comes to light that it is causing harm.

I used the same fuel in a 2.0 TSi and the engine seemed to approve. I remember a trip down the Oregon coast years back when available octane wasn't consistent and everything that was available was diluted with ethanol. I could certainly feel it in how the vehicle performed. For locals driving the same vehicle, they'd never know there would be a difference. Octane, fuel quality and ethanol content is going to vary across North America. Whether the driver can feel a difference from one fuel to the next on a given vehicle and whether there is long term harm from using lower grade fuel than the manufacturer specs is an unknown. On the flip side, if I had a new Tacoma or 4Runner with the same powertrain, I would probably be curious to see if premium fuel made a difference rather than stick with regular fuel based on what the owner's manual calls for.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

roadventure. I will put forth this English terminology to you to ponder. Often language translation is not exact. These words used in the manual are intentional. There is a major difference between the definition of the word "RECOMMENDED" and the word "REQUIREMENT". The manual "REQUIRES" a minimum of 87 octane. It "RECOMMENDS" premium for optimum performance.
Anyone that is in law, scholars, etc, writers etc would see that difference. This is critical thinking. No need to respond but this is the crux of the argument.
YOU ARE NOT CORRECT THINKING PREMIUM IS REQUIRED. IT IS RECOMMENDED. It is not required.
There is only one downside to premium. Cost...but if enough people can prove a ~2mpg difference between the two grades of fuel, lets call it 10% we would be at break even with 4.00/gal reg v 4.40 gal premium. If it is 3mpg (unlikely)which is ~13% that would be 4.52. That is a very realistic number at Costco...but we all know stations low ball reg to get you in the door then screw you on premium. Costco does not, and it is Tier 1...ALWAYS. My point several posts earlier was the difference in running costs is no more than half what people think it is. Using cheaper gas means less mpg....fact. It may cost you $10 less to fill up with Regular but at least half of those potential savings would never be realized. Anything I have discussed in this revived thread is nothing more than a RECOMMENDATION, you are not REQUIRED to agree, but I would hope you do some critical thinking and if you don't trust me, open up a Webster dictionary........lawyers review every word in an owners manual.............potential damage claims necessitate this clarity.

I grew up in the "Question Authority" era. I am sure you don't believe everything your politicians tell you. Massive corporations are highly political too.
All this discussion would never have occurred if Toyota didn't dick with English and specs in 4Runner v Land Cruiser manuals. I still stand by my "no way in hell the specs are identical via tunes on the 2 vehicles".....prove me wrong, please. This is not about argument and the typical social media right/wrong shallow thinking. This is to make every think about what they read........in their manual. Blind acceptance is a cult phenomena btw.

 

[TakaraLC]

I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread about premium versus top tier fuel.

 

[ultane]

Another thing to mention is that even though the same engine is used across different models they can be tuned and refined for specific platforms. I had a 2010 lexus ls 460 with the 4.6 I also had a tundra with the same 4.6 engine. Although the same engine the lexus required premium and the tundra does not. Those engines although the same behaved and accelerated completely different. Not to say the same is true for this thread however, I am of the beliefe that the designers and engineers know more than.........
This exact conversation use to be hashed on the lexus ls460 page. It is almost deja vu.

Welcome to the asylum.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread about premium versus top tier fuel.

Good observation. Premium does not have to be top tier. Neither does regular. But to be top tier they must still have an Octane rating . Damn logic classes.....

 

[TakaraLC]

roadventure. I will put forth this English terminology to you to ponder. Often language translation is not exact. These words used in the manual are intentional. There is a major difference between the definition of the word "RECOMMENDED" and the word "REQUIREMENT". The manual "REQUIRES" a minimum of 87 octane. It "RECOMMENDS" premium for optimum performance.
Anyone that is in law, scholars, etc, writers etc would see that difference. This is critical thinking. No need to respond but this is the crux of the argument.
YOU ARE NOT CORRECT THINKING PREMIUM IS REQUIRED. IT IS RECOMMENDED. It is not required.
There is only one downside to premium. Cost...but if enough people can prove a ~2mpg difference between the two grades of fuel, lets call it 10% we would be at break in with 4.00/gal reg v 4.40 gal premium. If it is 3mpg (unlikely)which is ~13% that would be 4.52. That is a very realistic number at Costco...but we all know stations low ball reg to get you in the door then screw you on premium. Costco does not, and it is Tier 1...ALWAYS. My point several posts earlier was the difference in running costs is no more than half what people think it is. Using cheaper gas means less mpg....fact. It may cost you $10 less to fill up with Regular but at least half of those potential savings would never be realized. Anything I have discussed in this revived thread is nothing more than a RECOMMENDATION, you are not REQUIRED to agree, but I would hope you do some critical thinking and if you don't trust me, open up a Webster dictionary........lawyers review every word in an owners manual.............potential damage claims necessitate this clarity.

I grew up in the "Question Authority" era. I am sure you don't believe everything your politicians tell you. Massive corporations are highly political too.
All this discussion would never have occurred if Toyota didn't dick with English and specs in 4Runner v Land Cruiser manuals. I still stand by my "no way in hell the specs are identical via tunes on the 2 vehicles".....prove me wrong, please. This is not about argument and the typical social media right/wrong shallow thinking. This is to make every think about what they read........in their manual. Blind acceptance is a cult phenomena btw.

I mean it is clear the manual requires 91 octane or higher. Which would be premium.it is stated multiple times throughout the manual.