Upgrading speakers on 1958

[Rubicon15]

What is the ohm rating of the beatsonic amp?

4 or 8 ohm

 

[Rubicon15]

What is the ohm rating of the beatsonic amp?

Specifications

• Maximum output 45W x 4ch (4Ω)
• Compatible impedance 4-8Ω
• Input sensitivity 0.5-5V
• Frequency characteristics 15-80kHz (+0, -1dB)
• Total harmonic distortion 0.01% (1kHz / 4Ω)
• Power supply DC12V (minus ground)
• Power supply voltage DC11V ~ 15V
• Current consumption 0.2A (when there is no signal)
• Fuse used 15A
• Audio input AUX level (RCA)
• Speaker level (supports high level input)
• Dimensions 96 (W) x 40 (D) x 113.5 (H)
• Weight 420g (main unit only)

 

[Rubicon15]

I replaced all the dash and door speakers with 4 ohm speakers. I also added the beatsonic amp behind the factory head unit. I've had issues with the factory equalizer cutting out sound to all speakers other than the right rear door that is direct wired for some reason.

The first set of speakers I installed were 3 ohm Infinities. With those installed, the speakers kept cutting out until eventually it killed the equalizer under the seat. I had the equalizer replaced and got sound back to all speakers. Thinking the 3 ohm speakers might be the issue, I replaced them with 4 ohm speakers. I'm still having issues with the speakers cutting out if I play the volume up (around 25 for more than a minute). Any ideas as to what me be causing this?

I would call Beats. Which speakers did you install? What is the dB and watt rating?

Did you install component speakers in the front? If so, I read that it’s best to avoid components in the front. I don’t know if other users have had problems similar to yours.

 

[rslundquist]

Right now I have:
Rockford Fosgate P132 in the dash: 85dB and 20W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1692 in front doors: 91dB and 75W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1650 in the rear doors: 88dB and 55W RMS each

I removed the Beats amp and the speakers would still cut out if I played a medium/high volume. I used the Metra adapter harnesses.

Stupid of me, but I pitched the factory speakers thinking I'd never need them again. I wish I could put them back in to see if I have the same problem with the factory setup.

​

 

[Rubicon15]

Right now I have:
Rockford Fosgate P132 in the dash: 85dB and 20W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1692 in front doors: 91dB and 75W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1650 in the rear doors: 88dB and 55W RMS each

I removed the Beats amp and the speakers would still cut out if I played a medium/high volume. I used the Metra adapter harnesses.

Stupid of me, but I pitched the factory speakers thinking I'd never need them again. I wish I could put them back in to see if I have the same problem with the factory setup.

​

Wow! Since I’m thinking about installing the Beats amp, this is troublesome. Did you ever contact Beats to troubleshoot what was causing the problem? I’ve read where some people recommend staying away from component speakers in the front dashboard. I’ve only read one other post like yours. I definitely need to do more research after reading this post. Thanks for sharing!

 

[rslundquist]

I did contact Beats Sonic. They tried to help by asking me to me to disconnect their amp to see if the problem still exists. With the problem still occurring without the amp, they didn't believe it was Beats related. A lot of other users on the forum have had great luck with the beats amp.

 

[Rubicon15]

I did contact Beats Sonic. They tried to help by asking me to me to disconnect their amp to see if the problem still exists. With the problem still occurring without the amp, they didn't believe it was Beats related. A lot of other users on the forum have had great luck with the beats amp.

I understand their reasoning. It must have been something with the speakers. Did you install component speakers in the front?

 

[rslundquist]

No to component speakers. They are coaxial 3.5s in dash and 6x9s in front door. This is the 2nd set of speakers I've put in, thinking the initial 3 ohm Infinity speakers were the issue. I'm on my 2nd factory equalizer. It's a possibility, but hard to believe I've gotten 2 equalizers and both of them are bad.

 

[Rubicon15]

No to component speakers. They are coaxial 3.5s in dash and 6x9s in front door. This is the 2nd set of speakers I've put in, thinking the initial 3 ohm Infinity speakers were the issue. I'm on my 2nd factory equalizer. It's a possibility, but hard to believe I've gotten 2 equalizers and both of them are bad. If the Beats amp gets too hot, it will shut down.

I would agree, two failures, not likely. I’ve read a few posts about replacing the dashboard speakers. Some people are hesitant and others advise not to use component speakers. The dashboard speakers and front door speakers are wired in parallel. Apparently, if the dashboard speakers are disconnected, the door speakers will not work.

Different topic. Do you know the maximum depth of a speaker that can be installed in the dashboard on a 1958? Some say 1 3/8 inches. I was looking at the JL C2 3.5 inch two way but they are 1 9/16 inches in depth. I don’t know if they will fit.

 

[rslundquist]

I would agree, two failures, not likely. I’ve read a few posts about replacing the dashboard speakers. Some people are hesitant and others advise not to use component speakers. The dashboard speakers and front door speakers are wired in parallel. Apparently, if the dashboard speakers are disconnected, the door speakers will not work.

Different topic. Do you know the maximum depth of a speaker that can be installed in the dashboard on a 1958? Some say 1 3/8 inches. I was looking at the JL C2 3.5 inch two way but they are 1 9/16 inches in depth. I don’t know if they will fit.

I don't know the max depth for the dash speakers. The first pair I had were 1 7/16 deep. I'd think the 1 9/16 would work, even if you need to put a spacer washer in when mounting them.

 

[Rubicon15]

I don't know the max depth for the dash speakers. The first pair I had were 1 7/16 deep. I'd think the 1 9/16 would work, even if you need to put a spacer washer in when mounting them.

It sounds like there is enough room between the top of the speakers and the dashboard grill to shim the speakers if needed. I just reread a post that stated 1 9/16 would not work. They installed Hertz vs JL C2 3.5.

 

[Rubicon15]

In an 1958 trim, I replaced the front door with JL C2-690tx and the rear doors with C2-650x while removing the dash speakers for the moment because of electrical cautions. The new speakers sound far better even with only factory power.

I've read that aftermarket speakers can be more sensitive than stock and play louder. That spec is provided on speaker brand webpages as SENSITIVITY (SPL @ 1 W/1 M).

Crutchfield Notes and techs identify the front doors and dash corners as factory wired in parallel with the stock dash an "8 ohm" speaker and the door being "4 ohm". Wiring two speakers in parallel changes the resistance of the circuit and changes the wattage delivered and can strain amps, potentially to failure. Because I changed the door speakers from stock, I am wary of altering the circuit resistance and stressing the factory head unit. I figured Toyota paired their two speakers to work with the factory unit and an aftermarket speaker could be meaningfully different.

My next step to install C2-350x dash speakers (C2-400x seem like too tight a fit) on new speaker wiring and externally amp everything with an 8-channel DPS amp Infinity DSP6840 ($350) (JBL DSP4086 is identical). It has 40W per channel which triples power from stock, to more channels, and is not too much to endanger the factory EQ unit under the driver's seat carpet (per Crutchfield tech). The amp also allows for also adding a center dash and powered sub with everything DSP tuned for correction of factory signal, speaker time alignment, crossovers, and EQ tuning to the cabin.

A simpler amp route would be the Beatsonic ENA-3T3 which adds 25W RMS compared the reported 10-15W of the stock head unit. BTW, Beatsonic has a wiring harness BH-10 that looks to simplify adding any external amp.

I just noticed you installed JL C2 350’s in the dashboard. How was the fit? I was concerned the C2 350’s were too deep at 1 9/16 inches. I’m very interested in installing the same speakers in the dashboard.

 

[Rubicon15]

I think first you need to decide what is your end game for the system. The C6 line of speakers would only make sense if you’re going to use high end amps and signal processors which will take a lot of power from the electrical system. Crutchfield only recommends amps with a 30 amps or lower rating.


I put the JL Audio CF-350MT in the dash they come with passive crossovers at 450 hz. Will probably put a mid bass driver up front and build my own 500 hz low pass crossover. I have been looking at the Match 5.4 dsp, not sure yet but not going to due anything to crazy.

Would you mind sharing why you chose the JL Audio CF-350MT vs JL C2 350’s? Looking at the specs, it appears they are close to the same depth. Did you have any issues installing 350MT?

 

[doraifurai]

Right now I have:
Rockford Fosgate P132 in the dash: 85dB and 20W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1692 in front doors: 91dB and 75W RMS each
Rockford Fosgate P1650 in the rear doors: 88dB and 55W RMS each

I removed the Beats amp and the speakers would still cut out if I played a medium/high volume. I used the Metra adapter harnesses.

Stupid of me, but I pitched the factory speakers thinking I'd never need them again. I wish I could put them back in to see if I have the same problem with the factory setup.

I have the factory speakers available if you’d like to buy them. I recently replaced them, after 4,000 miles. (I was thinking $75 plus shipping or beat offer).​

 

[TX_Landman]

Would you mind sharing why you chose the JL Audio CF-350MT vs JL C2 350’s? Looking at the specs, it appears they are close to the same depth. Did you have any issues installing 350MT?

Simple install used the factory bolts and a metra speaker connector just pushed the crossovers to the front. Probably should have used some double stick tape on the crossovers. I had previously used Morel CCWR254 in the dash and center in my Tundra with good results. So decided to give the slightly lager JLs a try.

 

[ryanjl]

I would agree, two failures, not likely. I’ve read a few posts about replacing the dashboard speakers. Some people are hesitant and others advise not to use component speakers. The dashboard speakers and front door speakers are wired in parallel. Apparently, if the dashboard speakers are disconnected, the door speakers will not work.

Different topic. Do you know the maximum depth of a speaker that can be installed in the dashboard on a 1958? Some say 1 3/8 inches. I was looking at the JL C2 3.5 inch two way but they are 1 9/16 inches in depth. I don’t know if they will fit.

The reason people are saying not to use component speakers has nothing to do with load on the amp. It's because the factory crossover separates the door speakers from the dash speakers at too low a frequency for just a tweeter in the dash to properly replicate.

 

[Rubicon15]

The reason people are saying not to use component speakers has nothing to do with load on the amp. It's because the factory crossover separates the door speakers from the dash speakers at too low a frequency for just a tweeter in the dash to properly replicate.

Thank you for the clarification! Based on quite a bit of reading on this site, I have decided on the JL Audio C2 350’s for the dashboard. They are a 3.5 inch two way speaker. When reading about the dashboard speakers, some people were concerned about the amp etc. Nice to know it’s really a crossover issue. I know the door and dashboard are wired in parallel. I didn’t know there were OEM inline crossovers. Thanks again

 

[Rubicon15]

The reason people are saying not to use component speakers has nothing to do with load on the amp. It's because the factory crossover separates the door speakers from the dash speakers at too low a frequency for just a tweeter in the dash to properly replicate.

You appear to be fairly knowledgeable regarding this system. By chance, did you install the Beats Encore amp? Do you think I would have any problems driving Morel 91dB speakers with 100 RMS at normal listening levels, nothing crazy?

Here are the specs:

Product highlights:​

Morel Tempo Ultra Integra 602 MKII​

• 2-way 6-1/2" speakers (pair)
• treated paper composite woofer cone with butyl rubber surround
• steel woofer basket
• 1" silk dome tweeter
• external crossovers
• handles up to 120 watts RMS (220 watts peak power)
• frequency response: 50-22,000 Hz
• sensitivity: 90 dB at 2.83 V
• mounting depth: 2-11/16"

 

[ryanjl]

I haven't done anything to my stereo yet. Will be soon, but I'm probably taking mine to a professional to have the whole system redone, including an aftermarket amp.

 

[Onandoffroaddriving]

I replaced all the dash and door speakers with 4 ohm speakers. I also added the beatsonic amp behind the factory head unit. I've had issues with the factory equalizer cutting out sound to all speakers other than the right rear door that is direct wired for some reason.

The first set of speakers I installed were 3 ohm Infinities. With those installed, the speakers kept cutting out until eventually it killed the equalizer under the seat. I had the equalizer replaced and got sound back to all speakers. Thinking the 3 ohm speakers might be the issue, I replaced them with 4 ohm speakers. I'm still having issues with the speakers cutting out if I play the volume up (around 25 for more than a minute). Any ideas as to what me be causing this?

In the 1958 trim, the corner dash and front door speakers are wired in parallel. Crutchfield Notes say the factory speakers are 4 ohm door and 8 ohm dash. My research reports that aftermarket 4 and 4 ohm speakers reduce the circuit resistance to 2 ohms and changes the electrical demands on the amp/headunit. Many amps are not 2 ohm stable. I don't know how all the electrical factors work out exactly, but reducing the resistance can increase the wattage output from amps that are stable lower (from say 50w to 65w). I'm guessing this is how the 3 ohm infinities killed the equalizer, the combined resistance would be 1.5 ohm I think and presumably further increasing wattage draw from the amp and through the equalizer.

I don't know the speaker wiring is setup on the other trims, they both have external amps.

I put these factors into grok and chatgpt, the both outputted the same answers of the 3ohm speakers in parallel combining to 1.5 ohm and causing a 67W draw from the beatsonic setup. The two 4 ohm speakers combine to 2 ohm and draw 50W.

Good options may be to use an upgraded 4 ohm door speaker without a dash speaker or with the 8ohm factory dash. My system upgrade last week had upgraded doors, no dash speakers, factory headunit only, and sounded signficantly better than original that had dash speakers. I figure only the four door speakers with the extra beatsonic power would be really good, but not having what people call the "front soundstage" enhancement lifting the perception of voices higher in the cabin. Different levels of better...

The Beatsonic install guide has it working with the factory 4 and 8 ohm speakers in parallel... which seems like it would exceed its own stated 4 ohm spec. Perhaps that's not so far off spec that they see it as still safe? Some Crutchfield advisors say that smaller speakers draw less current, affect the electrical dynamics less, and it's all a bit more complicated than simply two 4 ohm in parallel makes 2 ohms.

My project plan is to route an external amp 40w through the factory wire and equalizer to the doors alone (new wiring for dash) and am now wondering if that may be too much for the equalizer. Crutchfield tech studied what he could find online and advised to try with carefully testing of the gain levels. It'd be 40w at 4 ohm, rather a Beatsonic perhaps 50W at 2 ohm.

Did you see much about how the equalizer is wired in?