LC Trim base level stereo

All this discussion has me listening more closely. I've started listening to more guitar heavy music and the infinity 307s seem to be missing something.

Anyone have experience with Hertz speakers? They are pretty high sensitivity, like 92dB. Their 4" DCX 100.3 has a mounting depth right in-between the infinity 307 and 407 so I am hoping it will squeeze in there

I just ordered some to try since Amazon has them on sale for like 60 bucks. If the tearing goes well I will consider try their higher end 4" cx100

AlexGates said:
*Chancellor says the center goes up to 20,000hz, so I'm leery to put the 307, I don't know if the tweeter will fire thus being bright, I guess I could cut the wires to it. Banging around Crutchfield, there don't seem to be a lot of options when it comes to depth and price. Kenwood KFC-X3C has less depth and the sensitivity is listed as the same. Less than the 307.
Click to expand...
I prevented problems with my 307 in the center by disconnecting the tweet by desoldering the capacitor from the speaker terminal,but in reality I don't think that center is used much for anything
 
chancellor said:
All this discussion has me listening more closely. I've started listening to more guitar heavy music and the infinity 307s seem to be missing something.

Anyone have experience with Hertz speakers? They are pretty high sensitivity, like 92dB. Their 4" DCX 100.3 has a mounting depth right in-between the infinity 307 and 407 so I am hoping it will squeeze in there

I just ordered some to try since Amazon has them on sale for like 60 bucks. If the tearing goes well I will consider try their higher end 4" cx100


I prevented problems with my 307 in the center by disconnecting the tweet by desoldering the capacitor from the speaker terminal,but in reality I don't think that center is used much for anything
Click to expand...

I've seen positive comments on the Hertz, that's a good find. But, the 1 3/4 (1.6875" if Crutchfield's 1 11/16th is correct) mounting depth gives me pause. With the REF307 and the JL (a smidge deeper), I pretty much bottomed them out or the right side.

I agree with you on "missing something", I'm not sure it isn't the head unit/amp that may be the issue. I like the JL 350, but I have to really turn them up for them to reach their potential, then it is too loud for extended listening, the lousy sensitivity (83) is also a concern, though they do sound good (over priced though). I'm going to stick the REF307 back in and give them another shot for a day or two. If they perform a lot better, but are still bright too me, I may attempt to cut the brightness by taping speaker cloth to the inside of the grill cover or over the tweeter.

That Hertz would be a fantastic option if it fits in the right side, but it definitely isn't going to fit in the center (the JL wouldn't.) I just ordered a pair off AMZ (thanks $60 is a deal) since it's free shipping and returns, they will show tomorrow (oddly, if I ordered two pairs, they would show Sunday lol.)

I looked at the OEM dash (corner) speakers yesterday. There is no way that is a 2-way. That is a midrange/"full range", there is no tweeter on it. Another thing I have started to consider is to order a pair of JBL/Premium a-pillars and just make it components. Better offerings and won't be pointing at the glass windshield, but I really don't want to go to that much effort.

Toyota should have done a 4", it would have opened up a lot more options. Decent 3.5's are just really limited. I may try the Kenwood.

​

 
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Thank you all for doing all this testing I am watching this discussion for all the outcomes and making my decisions. Thanks again!
 
AlexGates said:
I've seen positive comments on the Hertz, that's a good find. But, the 1 3/4 (1.6875" if Crutchfield's 1 11/16th is correct) mounting depth gives me pause. With the REF307 and the JL (a smidge deeper), I pretty much bottomed them out or the right side.

I agree with you on "missing something", I'm not sure it isn't the head unit/amp that may be the issue. I like the JL 350, but I have to really turn them up for them to reach their potential, then it is too loud for extended listening, the lousy sensitivity (83) is also a concern, though they do sound good (over priced though). I'm going to stick the REF307 back in and give them another shot for a day or two. If they perform a lot better, but are still bright too me, I may attempt to cut the brightness by taping speaker cloth to the inside of the grill cover or over the tweeter.

That Hertz would be a fantastic option if it fits in the right side, but it definitely isn't going to fit in the center (the JL wouldn't.) I just ordered a pair off AMZ (thanks $60 is a deal) since it's free shipping and returns, they will show tomorrow (oddly, if I ordered two pairs, they would show Sunday lol.)

I looked at the OEM dash (corner) speakers yesterday. There is no way that is a 2-way. That is a midrange/"full range", there is no tweeter on it. Another thing I have started to consider is to order a pair of JBL/Premium a-pillars and just make it components. Better offerings and won't be pointing at the glass windshield, but I really don't want to go to that much effort.

Toyota should have done a 4", it would have opened up a lot more options. Decent 3.5's are just really limited. I may try the Kenwood.

​

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Yea I agree, there may not be much more that speakers can pull out if the source isnt too great.

I had a different mounting experience on my 2024, i wonder if anything changed. I currently have a ref 407 (1.85" depth) on the right (passenger) side, so I am not worried about the hertz fitting that side. The 407 was around .2" too tall on the left, so I am hopeful the Hertz will squeeze in, maybe with a small spacer below the mounts or something. I was only able to get my hacked 307 in the center, i'll probably just leave that there since it doesn't seem to be utilized a whole lot

My OEM L/R dash speakers are definitely 2-way, just not very good. They use a weird flush center mount tweeter and a fairly large capacitor on the back for the HighPassFilter that feeds the tweeter. Comparing with the 1-way center speaker, that has a dustcap in the center and no capacitor/filter

1741362004726.png
 
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chancellor said:
Yea I agree, there may not be much more that speakers can pull out if the source isnt too great.

I had a different mounting experience on my 2024, i wonder if anything changed. I currently have a ref 407 (1.85" depth) on the right (passenger) side, so I am not worried about the hertz fitting that side. The 407 was around .2" too tall so I am hopeful the Hertz will squeeze in, maybe with a small spacer below the mounts or something. I was only able to get a 307 in the center, i'll probably just leave that there since it doesn't seem to be utilized a whole lot

My OEM L/R dash speakers are definitely 2-way, just not very good. They use a weird flush center mount tweeter and a fairly large capacitor on the back for the HighPassFilter that feeds the tweeter. Comparing with the 1-way center speaker, that has a dustcap in the center and no capacitor/filter

View attachment 29599
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Yeah, they OEM's are weird looking and pretty junky. I put the 370's back in, the vocals and highs are just too much for me, though they are more open/dynamic/mids fuller than the JL (probably the sensitivity difference.) Funny enough, I decided to put a JL in the drivers and a 307 in the PAX, it actually sounds pretty good. At any rate, the JL's are back in.

I screwed around with putting my hand over the windshield and the windshield is definitely an issue (the JBL guys may have won out out on this one), this really presents itself with vocals, doesn't matter if it is the REF307 or the JL350. I'm still thinking about some thin speaker cloth or something like it. Part of me wants to stick the crap OEMs back in and just call it a day -or- just go with a cheaper aftermarket option. Anything is going to sound better, but what dump a lot of money when you are going to get "great" results.

I'll try the Hertz tomorrow, but they are probably bright considering their tweeter material. The Audiofrog GS42 looks like it may be a winner, but the 1 15/16 probably wouldn't fit in the drivers and I don;t want to push my luck with Crutchfield returns. Plus, they are expensive.

*the JL's may get better with some break in. 83 sensitivity though, jeez. The rest of their C2 line is 90'ish.

​

 
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AlexGates said:
Yeah, they OEM's are weird looking and pretty junky. I put the 370's back in, the vocals and highs are just too much for me, though they are more open/dynamic/mids hit harder than the JL (probably the sensitivity difference.) Funny enough, I decided to put a JL in the drivers and a 307 in the PAX, it actually sounds pretty good. At any rate, the JL's are back in.

I screwed around with putting my hand over the windshield and the windshield is definitely an issue (the JBL guys may have won out out on this one), this really presents itself with vocals, doesn't matter if it is the REF307 or the JL350. I'm still thinking about some thin speaker cloth or something like it. Part of me wants to stick the crap OEMs back in and just call it a day -or- just go with a cheaper aftermarket option. Anything is going to sound better, but what dump a lot of money when you are going to get "great" results.

I'll try the Hertz tomorrow, but they are probably bright considering their tweeter material.
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That's a good point about the windshield... I have transparent ceramic tint on my windshield, that probably softens the reflections some.

I wonder if its possible to get the JBL systems A pillar trim pieces, then it would be pretty easy to use component 3.5/4" speakers, and run the tweeters in the pillar off the dash line

something like this (if 1.75" will fit) https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500S2S40C/Alpine-S2-S40C.html?tp=106
 
chancellor said:
That's a good point about the windshield... I have transparent ceramic tint on my windshield, that probably softens the reflections some.

I wonder if its possible to get the JBL systems A pillar trim pieces, then it would be pretty easy to use component 3.5/4" speakers, and run the tweeters in the pillar off the dash line

something like this (if 1.75" will fit) https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500S2S40C/Alpine-S2-S40C.html?tp=106
Click to expand...
I do too on my front windshield. Voices can sound scratchy to me at a certain frequency, I have hearing damage (oddly, I am super sensitive to high pitch sounds, and I'm 50 lol), so it could be my ears. I get scratchy voices from my home speakers (Paradigm) depending on my head orientation.

I couldn't see why we couldn't order the pillars. Problem is, just from looking at Crutchfield, the speaker options are really limited. Then, you have to stash the x-over somewhere. Those Alpine's look like the only option.

And to think, I didn't get the Premium simply because I wanted to avoid the cool box and sunroof lol, now I'm playing musical speakers.

eta: I do feel the center does "something", I've had it in stereo while trying the various speakers, I flipped it over to "surround" and things do sound smoother. If it is the center doing something or the DSP doing something, I don't know. I know in another post a member said they found the surround setting to be annoying. They went with JL all around the vehicle. My primary annoyance is trying to get clean well rounded sound at a sane person's volume. I think I am fighting the amp at this point, the quality (no matter if they are Infinity, JL, Hertz) are showing that the amp kind of sucks. Considering what Toyota installed for speakers, why install a decent amp. Maybe if they are the same in the 4R and Taco as the LC, someone with make a drop in replacement. Pretty bad when Sirius sounds less annoying than Apple Music. 🤣
 
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chancellor said:
That's a good point about the windshield... I have transparent ceramic tint on my windshield, that probably softens the reflections some.

I wonder if its possible to get the JBL systems A pillar trim pieces, then it would be pretty easy to use component 3.5/4" speakers, and run the tweeters in the pillar off the dash line

something like this (if 1.75" will fit) https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500S2S40C/Alpine-S2-S40C.html?tp=106
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From your measuring experience, how do you think a transition to a component style setup would work with whatever DSP the head unit is using? I would think it would sound pretty good regardless. Would you surface mount the tweeters or do a custom A-pillar replacement?

I’ve also had some slight vocal distortion with the JL350’s, not too bad but noticeable on Sirius XM TV feeds. That could just be the crap sat signal anyway. I wonder if it’s the head unit being pushed too hard. I think perhaps a Beat-Sonic could help with the power just enough to not be stressed with lower sensitivity speakers. Was not going to try that but it’s looking more viable as the days go on.
 
ekkoville said:
From your measuring experience, how do you think a transition to a component style setup would work with whatever DSP the head unit is using? I would think it would sound pretty good regardless. Would you surface mount the tweeters or do a custom A-pillar replacement?

I’ve also had some slight vocal distortion with the JL350’s, not too bad but noticeable on Sirius XM TV feeds. That could just be the crap sat signal anyway. I wonder if it’s the head unit being pushed too hard. I think perhaps a Beat-Sonic could help with the power just enough to not be stressed with lower sensitivity speakers. Was not going to try that but it’s looking more viable as the days go on.
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I think it would definitely help to use components for the dash L/R. It might be hard to squeeze in the larger crossovers that the higher end component systems use, but it is probably doable with some extra wiring.

I'm personally not a fan of how surface mounts look, unless they are professionally done and I am too cheap for that :)

I think if there is a way to get the JBL a-pillar trim that would be the best scenario. Anyone know how to find that part number?
 
AlexGates said:
Well, my Hertz from Amazon never showed up. So, no information on those.
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Luckily my Hertz came over the weekend. They are slightly shorter than the 407s, just enough to barely squeeze into the drivers side. There was plenty of room for the passenger side. I did need to trim one of the screw ears off of each one to fit under the trim, but the screw holes lined up perfectly, and the grill fit back over top.

After swapping to the Hertz i could immediately tell they were much brighter, but less harsh. There seems to be a lot more clarity in the high frequencies. There still seems to be something lacking in the mid-range, i think thats from the dip caused by the dsp/crossover. Maybe the beatsonic thing helps this?

I took measurements before and after, and the confirm the extra brightness, the Hertz are ~6dB louder from 10k-20kHz

infinity 307, hertz 100.3, infinity 407
1741712036688.png


1741712057230.png



drivers side:
1741712107900.png
 
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I may have to try the Hertz. I have the OEM back in right now.
The REF307 is just painful to me, good vocals (but harsh), but the mids/lows are kind of weak.
The JL350 has weak vocals (sensitivity too low?) but really good mids/bass.

I was looking at Rockford Fosgate 3.5" as an attempt. Some people like Kicker, but they get some pretty bad reviews, and the car audio people say they are trash.

I've been using your 407 not fitting as a rough guide, now that you've said the Hertz will fit (depthwise), I know what to exclude. It's too bad so many of the 4" are so deep.

Thank you for posting your findings, chancellor, great help.
 
chancellor said:
I took measurements before and after, and they confirm the extra brightness, the Hertz are ~6dB louder from 10k-20kHz, but they are both kind of a mess between 200-1000Hz

View attachment 30086
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Did you unhook the front door speakers, I assume, before that measurement? I’ll be honest, we seem to know about the odd DSP that is going on here, but why would they try and dip a 3.5-4” speaker down that low when they’re crossing a 6.5” with it in the door? Makes no sense and pushes the dash speakers too hard.

For reference, BeatSonic says they have a t-harness that will break out the audio in this device, the BH10. Not sure you can correct it all with some DSP/amp combo but I do wonder if that would work better.
 
Wanted: If anyone has to buy a pair of speakers to go in the center slot, I'll go halfsies with you and take the other one.
 
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