Lazy and unacceptable design choices from the biggest autocompany on the planet

[TakaraLC]

I wonder how kids survive in cars without rear vents... This “issue” should also be added to the first world problems thread.

 

[5Runner]

Number 8 is a serious concern for me as well in my 2024 LCLC premium. I keep the AC on auto mostly (because of the heat issues in winter months) and multiple times in my past 14 month ownership my kid is sweating or over heated because there is no air flow coming from the rear vents. I have 2 occupied car seats, one with a 5 year old who is almost 50 pounds. I have to physically reach back and check if there is air flow from the rear vents. The other solution is you don't keep the rear AC on "auto" or "sync" and let the rear passenger control their own settings. In my case, that's not possible because I have 2 kids strapped in their car seats.

Can't you also turn the S-Flow thing off in the settings menu?

 

[Altitude]

To me, those are all nits and I think you’d find similar in any car. Also, frankly, some people seem to report them and others don’t. The noise on the GX rood rack, for example.

I love the vehicle. I will offer up one design issue that I believe is a serious safety issue and that Toyota should address yesterday.

If we are using Apple CarPlay and listening to the radio, it can take as many as six taps to change the radio station, then additional taps to get back to CarPlay. Having to manipulate the MMI that much to simply change the station, while possibly traveling down the highway at 75MPH, is unsafe and strictly unacceptable.

A workable solution would be to provide a menu bar that would enable source changing with one tap. I understand some of us actually see this, depending on build date. I don’t.

A better solution would be to provide a few programmable shortcut buttons, which is the approach I had in the Chevrolet I had before the LC and the BMW I had before that. In those you could program buttons that were ever present at the bottom of the MMI screen to specific radio stations or to other MMI functions if you wanted one-tap access to those. Given the width of our screens, Toyota could probably fit six such buttons.

 

[AlexGates]

Most of these issues are shared across both lc250 and the gx. I just can’t fathom how Toyota has gotten these designs so wrong with so much RD budget and almost 2 decades of development time. Some of the issues are not even acceptable from a young startup :
1. Rock rails that can’t be used as steps- wth is going on here. Did the designers ever put their damn first articles into use before it went to production ? The answer has to be a no because nobody would find this acceptable

2. Heads-up display sun reflection on the windshield- again around 2-3 pm I get a super distracting magnify type glare reflected from the hud glass on to the windshield. It is to a point that I want to cover the hud completely

3. Noisy crossbars - these crossbars haul at any speed over 45. My bmw and Volvo that have cross bars don’t make any noise.

4. Extremely noisy gx roofrack- the roofrack is flat out undeliverable . It shakes the whole roof over 55mph. At almost 2k price point every gx owner immediately takes them off at the time of delivery

5. Lc FE roofrack- the plastic front wind deflector is flimsy and will make contact with the roof making constant banging noise on the freeway. I had to stick a 3M tape between the plastic and the roof to dampen the noise

6. Trd exhaust - gx trd exhaust at 2k plus is drony and flat out unbearable

7. Capacitive sensing interior lights - good luck opening the sunroof without accidentally turning on the lights. This could have been easily mitigated by debounce timing

8. Ac - the gx has something called the s flow which directs air to occupied passenger seats however for some reason it doesn’t detect a toddler in the child seat, despite the child seat being secured by the seatbelt - now every time I’m driving with my kid I have to reach out to make sure the events have flow

I can understand ( to some degree) the design choices that led to small gas tanks and annoying Nannies due regulations etc but none of the above fall in that category and it is nothing but lazy engineering.

Being in charge of RD in a midsize startup , usability testing , limited market release ,and voice of customer is an essential part of every product release which makes me believe that these damn engineers never cared to test their own product.

I don’t have any of those issues, probably because I intentionally purchased a LC that doesn’t have any of that stuff (well, I have the lights, but no sunroof.)

S-flow can be disabled.

 

[Jheri]

Having a 2 inch diameter reflection bouncing off the hud on the windshield right on driver line of slight is unacceptable design that could have been avoided by anti glare coating.

Oh my god. I thought I was going insane. First thought it was a dirty window, then my sunglass holder, then literally anything else other than the HUD.

Now that you mention it, I remember the reflection on the Sienna being significantly worse. You could literally see the entire HUD housing reflected off the glass.

 

[hookem512]

Can't you also turn the S-Flow thing off in the settings menu?

Yes, you can turn this off. People don’t read the manuals though

Looks like page 475 in the LC manual.

 

[teghogh]

Yes, you can turn this off. People don’t read the manuals though

Looks like page 475 in the LC manual.

Mine defaults back to on with ignition cycle

 

[hookem512]

Mine defaults back to on with ignition cycle

Yep, that’s intended functionality. It returns to auto mode after the ignition is off for 60 mins. Page 476.

 

[Madscientist]

My replies are in bold:
1. Rock rails that can’t be used as steps- wth is going on here. Did the designers ever put their damn first articles into use before it went to production ? The answer has to be a no because nobody would find this acceptable

OEM rock rails are an option on most LC250 models, so the owner can choose a preferred version (exception: FE model). Some like rock rails that are tucked close to the vehicle so they don't hit obstacles while on the trail. Others like to have dual functionality of a step with rock protection. Easy fix- replace the OEM with your preferred variant (predator steps or dual purpose rock rail).

2. Heads-up display sun reflection on the windshield- again around 2-3 pm I get a super distracting magnify type glare reflected from the hud glass on to the windshield. It is to a point that I want to cover the hud completely

I can't speak to this, as I intentionally did not want the HUD or cool box, so bought a non-premium package LC trim.

3. Noisy crossbars - these crossbars haul at any speed over 45. My bmw and Volvo that have cross bars don’t make any noise.

Mine has OEM roof rails with two cross bars, and IMO it is rock solid and not overly loud at interstate speeds.

4. Extremely noisy gx roofrack- the roofrack is flat out undeliverable . It shakes the whole roof over 55mph. At almost 2k price point every gx owner immediately takes them off at the time of delivery

I've no experience with GX rack, so can't comment on this, other than to say the rack is replaceable by multiple aftermarket companies, any of which may better suit your needs.

5. Lc FE roofrack- the plastic front wind deflector is flimsy and will make contact with the roof making constant banging noise on the freeway. I had to stick a 3M tape between the plastic and the roof to dampen the noise

No experience with FE rack; as mentioned above, there are other aftermarket options that you could pursue.

6. Trd exhaust - gx trd exhaust at 2k plus is drony and flat out unbearable

This exhaust is optional. Not all people enjoy the sound of a 'performance' exhaust. A few people have installed this on their LC, and there is a thread on this forum on how well they like the sound. A little research before buying is always worthwhile (assuming you had this installed after purchasing the LC).

7. Capacitive sensing interior lights - good luck opening the sunroof without accidentally turning on the lights. This could have been easily mitigated by debounce timing

I have the sunroof, and it took me maybe a month to achieve 'muscle memory' point where I no issue pushing the open or closed button without hitting the light- just takes a little time to become familiar with the layout.

8. Ac - the gx has something called the s flow which directs air to occupied passenger seats however for some reason it doesn’t detect a toddler in the child seat, despite the child seat being secured by the seatbelt - now every time I’m driving with my kid I have to reach out to make sure the events have flow

As others have said, the driver can control the rear climate through the infotainment screen- it's pretty easy.

I can understand ( to some degree) the design choices that led to small gas tanks and annoying Nannies due regulations etc but none of the above fall in that category and it is nothing but lazy engineering.

Being in charge of RD in a midsize startup , usability testing , limited market release ,and voice of customer is an essential part of every product release which makes me believe that these damn engineers never cared to test their own product.

 

[ERROR504]

Apparently I’ve got extremely small hands or something because I’ve never accidentally turned on a light when opening the sunroof. Or maybe I’m just more intentional with my movements.

Also, tighten the side fairing bolts on your roof rack. Mine also vibrated and hit the roof until I tightened the bolts…

When I bought my FE rack off another forum member, I just torqued all the bolts even the fairing side. Have not had any issues like OP claims.

 

[ultane]

I wonder how kids survive in cars without rear vents... This “issue” should also be added to the first world problems thread.

Yea. I bought a Chevy G-20 conversion van in ‘91. It was great for my wife and 4 kids and I. Plenty of room. 4 captains chairs and a rear bench that folded flat for a miniature ’bed’. But God help the occupants in the rear on a hot day. It seamed like it took forever for them to cool down, even with all the vents in the front aimed straight back.

 

[DubDub]

Welp, I have to admit that I am very appreciative that this conversation happened. Checked my rear and cargo vents on 65 degrees w/ “auto” and “sync” selected, and w/ air blasting from the front vents. Almost no air. Kids haven’t complained, but did notice the maligator panting this past weekend.
Went into the infotainment and looked at the various climate options.

1) Turned off “ECO Heat/Cool” and the air is no longer affected by the drive setting. However, it defaults back to “on” w/ each ignition cycle.

2) Looked at the rear setting and “REAR OFF” was selected, even w/ auto and sync selected via the manual buttons, and rear settings indicated on from the front selections. Deselected that and air is flowing properly. Since I don’t know how “REAR OFF” came to be selected, I at least now know to pay attention to it, and what my girls might accidentally be pressing.

3) No “S-Flow” to be found in the climate settings of my 1958. Maybe that is an LCLC/FE thing? I see it mentioned on paper, will need to dig in.

It occurs to me as I write this that I don’t even know if the rear climate is lockable from the front (it is in our Sequoia). Something to explore…

 

[ColoradoCruiser]

After reading this, I'm left wondering what vehicles you've owned in the past. Every vehicle I've owned have had their quirks that kept them from getting perfect scores.

 

[OverlandMethod]

I drove a loaner Sienna while the LC was in shop over the long Labor Day weekend for reasons talked about in other threads.
I'm not a minivan person but the sienna was excellent. Quite. Gets 500+ miles on the same size tank as the LC. Transmission doesn't even feel like is there. Just smooth. Kids loved it.

Give me the grr grr grr diesel sound and unrefined transmission. The road and air noise from the roof rack. The b pillar complaints and break squeal all day. Every day.

Ice cube needs to add this line to his song. I got my LC back from the shop. Today was a good day.

That rhymes real well.

 

[BossEvelope]

I take OPs points and think they are fair. They haven’t quite bothered me except on the rock sliders not also being wide enough to be side steps. The only additions I would have on the list is the incredibly weak heated and/or cooled seat settings. I have to have those on 3 dots to feel anything and still super weak.

 

[katekebo]

No car is perfect. Every car can only take a finite amount of engineering hours to design, otherwise it would arrive to the market 10 years behind competition and would cost 10 times more.
Toyota engineers and business folks need to find a balance between investing enough engineering hours to make a car "good enough" to be competitive, but without going overboard that would make it too expensive and behind a constantly evolving technology. They also need to balance where to invest the limited resources - they could spend more hours on some of the items the OP mentioned, at the expense of hours invested in things like drivetrain or safety. Each company sets its own priorities. Toyota invests more engineering time in reliability and durability, Subaru invests in safety, Hyundai/KIA does a great job fitting their vehicles with latest technology and features while keeping them affordable, Ford invests in practicality, and Jeep invests in off-road technology and "cool" design. As a consumer you have a choice - you can buy an affordable and very well equipped KIA that will run circles around any Toyota in terms of interior design, technology and even comfort - just don't expect its engine to last a long time. Or you can buy a Jeep which frankly does beat a LC off-road, but don't expect it to be trouble-free. If you want something that is as close to perfection as possible, probably get a Lexus, but be prepared to pay the price.

 

[Blue Bear]

I’ve read here that the windshields on Premium equipped LC trim costs $2000 retail because of the coating for HUD operation.

The partial reflection of light on glass doesn't require a special coating.

 

[DoMoCruiser24]

1. Rock rails that can’t be used as steps- wth is going on here.

Ridiculous indeed. But to be fair, appears to be a design issue with OEM rock rails from other brands as well. I.e Jeep Rubicon rock rails.

2. Heads-up display sun reflection on the windshield- again around 2-3 pm I get a super distracting magnify type glare reflected from the hud glass on to the windshield. It is to a point that I want to cover the hud completely

Don’t have them. Wouldn’t it be resolved by having your windshield tinted though?

3. Noisy crossbars - these crossbars haul at any speed over 45. My bmw and Volvo that have cross bars don’t make any noise.

Agreed. I pulled mine off. Luckily they’re very quick to put back on in the winter when I mainly use them.

4. Extremely noisy gx roofrack- the roofrack is flat out undeliverable . It shakes the whole roof over 55mph. At almost 2k price point every gx owner immediately takes them off at the time of delivery

Considering the price point, should at least be comparable performance to cheaper aftermarket options.

5. Lc FE roofrack- the plastic front wind deflector is flimsy and will make contact with the roof making constant banging noise on the freeway. I had to stick a 3M tape between the plastic and the roof to dampen the noise

6. Trd exhaust - gx trd exhaust at 2k plus is drony and flat out unbearable

The performance exhaust is just as bad on the LC. Waste of money if you ask me. There is no enhancing the harmonics of an I4 or a V6….

7. Capacitive sensing interior lights - good luck opening the sunroof without accidentally turning on the lights. This could have been easily mitigated by debounce timing

Can’t say I notice.

8. Ac - the gx has something called the s flow which directs air to occupied passenger seats however for some reason it doesn’t detect a toddler in the child seat, despite the child seat being secured by the seatbelt - now every time I’m driving with my kid I have to reach out to make sure the events have flow

After driving around the lake in 108’ weather one day, I was admiring how impressive the AC was at keeping the vehicle nice and cool. Then I opened the back door to the sight of my toddler sweating buckets. Had to fiddle with the AC settings but accidentally set it up to where it’s on in the back everytime the car starts. I still worry and yell to ask if the AC is on every once in a while.

 

[Frank1268]

I agree regarding the small fuel tank. I have to carry Jerry cans whenever I head off road.

 

[6-funk]

I've never gotten anything close to 390 miles of range after a fil up!! 300 maybe, but I've never got any consistently good MPG either. I always average less than 20 mpg even on flat highway cruises. But that's for another thread!