Can I trust the LC???

[bigdog479]

I would trust it, I have been a Toyota guy for many years and I will be the first to admit Toyota's legendary reliability has taken a hit in my eyes as of late. But what are you going to replace it with that has the same form and function? Bronco, Jeep, or another Toyota with the same powertrain? I previously stepped out of my Toyota track record and bought a Jeep Gladiator and had it for two years and lost more on it when I sold it then probably my last 5 Toyotas combined lol Plus that Jeep's V6 isn't even in the same universe as my wife's LC when it comes to power or smoothness.
I have been a proud 2024 Tundra owner for the last year and yes I'm not happy about the engine recall, but it seems to be that Toyota is at least working to make it right by a full engine replacement and they are doing it in an accetableish timeframe.

I think most of these problems stem from the government forcing emissions laws on auto manufacturers and them fighting to meet them plus show a profit for their shareholders.
I'm afraid to say that based on my 2024 Tundra experience form and fit not just the engine recall that Toyota may be heading in the wrong direction and it kinda comes down to picking the lesser of the two evils at the end of the day.

 

[Bad1975]

^^Concur alternatives or almost anything out now in the new vehicle department aren't any better for reliability and any current comparable alternatives sit below Toyota IME. Ford has had reliability issues for along time, Jeep has electrical issues and this has been around for 6 years or more. Range Rover?? Don't have knowledge on current reliability but past reliability steers me clear. Grenadier to early and unknown to adopt and allot of quirks.

Can't think of any other compartibles, E-Wagon is different segment IMO and parts and labor are expensive.

Maybe the Scout will be good??

 

[Lenny33]

I would trust it, I have been a Toyota guy for many years and I will be the first to admit Toyota's legendary reliability has taken a hit in my eyes as of late. But what are you going to replace it with that has the same form and function? Bronco, Jeep, or another Toyota with the same powertrain? I previously stepped out of my Toyota track record and bought a Jeep Gladiator and had it for two years and lost more on it when I sold it then probably my last 5 Toyotas combined lol Plus that Jeep's V6 isn't even in the same universe as my wife's LC when it comes to power or smoothness.
I have been a proud 2024 Tundra owner for the last year and yes I'm not happy about the engine recall, but it seems to be that Toyota is at least working to make it right by a full engine replacement and they are doing it in an accetableish timeframe.

I think most of these problems stem from the government forcing emissions laws on auto manufacturers and them fighting to meet them plus show a profit for their shareholders.
I'm afraid to say that based on my 2024 Tundra experience form and fit not just the engine recall that Toyota may be heading in the wrong direction and it kinda comes down to picking the lesser of the two evils at the end of the day.

You hit the nail on the head - nothing else is comparable for what I need the vehicle to do!! yeah, I forgot I even considered a bronco.
A Land Cruiser that betrayed my trust once, is still a more reliable option than a defender.

 

[Lenny33]

^^Concur alternatives or almost anything out now in the new vehicle department aren't any better for reliability and any current comparable alternatives sit below Toyota IME. Ford has had reliability issues for along time, Jeep has electrical issues and this has been around for 6 years or more. Range Rover?? Don't have knowledge on current reliability but past reliability steers me clear. Grenadier to early and unknown to adopt and allot of quirks.

Can't think of any other compartibles, E-Wagon is different segment IMO and parts and labor are expensive.

Maybe the Scout will be good??

Exactly! Dude, if that scout was out already, that is what I would be rolling the dice on!

They are saying that will not be released until the end of 2027.

 

[Bad1975]

Haven't checked it out recently, but it looked to check all my boxes. The company that bought the name rights surely can't do any worse than the current offerings and just may have a better chance at quality because for a new startup it's make or break so it better be good!

 

[RUN-8]

As I was getting ready to purchase my LC, I read many many forum posts from all the old school LC guys and boomers spouting off about how a turbo 4 is not capable of what it is being called to do. “You can’t tow with a turbo 4!! And get off my yard!!”
I laughed at them for their old school thinking. But now………were they right??

I have posted this problem on another thread, but long story short, my problems began while pulling a 4k camper up a long pass in Colorado. Well below tow capacity and not pushing the vehicle hard. Started getting pre ignition errors, loss of power, and eventual misfires. Toyota found scoring in cylinder 4 and it will receive a new engine (short block with some extras).
So here is my question - can I trust this vehicle going forward?? I am a long time Toyota cult member and have always trusted in their products (part of the reason that I blew off the concerns over a turbo 4). Toyota is having issues right now, to put it mildly! Maybe the tundra issues expand into other engines? I have already heard that the LC has had many lemon law buyouts that seem to go mostly unknown by the public.
Once I get it back - can I truly trust it????

Get the vehicle back, and try it again.

The issue you are describing with rough running, pre-ignition errors, loss of power, misfires, and cylinder wall scoring are most likely problems with fueling, or ignition.

The cylinder wall scoring leads me to suspect a malfunctioning fuel injector as the culprit, maybe stuck open and washing down the cylinder walls in number 4 with fuel. That will act as a solvent and wash oil off the cylinder walls and not long after you will get cylinder wall damage. Plus it will run like a sack of poopy. A bad ignition coil or spark plug could do something similar too from normal amounts of fuel injecting but not getting ignited, washing down the cylinder walls.

I suppose it is possible you were actually getting pre-ignition (knock) events. Maybe some bad fuel, or you weren’t using the required octane fuel. If that were the case I would expect to see damage across all cylinders, and it would present more on the piston tops.

 

[Lenny33]

Haven't checked it out recently, but it looked to check all my boxes. The company that bought the name rights surely can't do any worse than the current offerings and just may have a better chance at quality because for a new startup it's make or break so it better be good!

My son has an Ariya. I never realized just how fast and torquey electric vehicles are. That would be really fun on a platform like the new scout.!

 

[Lenny33]

Get the vehicle back, and try it again.

The issue you are describing with rough running, pre-ignition errors, loss of power, misfires, and cylinder wall scoring are most likely problems with fueling, or ignition.

The cylinder wall scoring leads me to suspect a malfunctioning fuel injector as the culprit, maybe stuck open and washing down the cylinder walls in number 4 with fuel. That will act as a solvent and wash oil off the cylinder walls and not long after you will get cylinder wall damage. Plus it will run like a sack of poopy. A bad ignition coil or spark plug could do something similar too from normal amounts of fuel injecting but not getting ignited, washing down the cylinder walls.

I suppose it is possible you were actually getting pre-ignition (knock) events. Maybe some bad fuel, or you weren’t using the required octane fuel. If that were the case I would expect to see damage across all cylinders, and it would present more on the piston tops.

One of my best buddies (total gear head and buggy builder) has the exact same hypothesis- faulty fuel injector washing away lubricant in 4. Just getting a confirmation that was the issue would provide me a huge boost in confidence going forward. They keep telling me parts will arrive ”any day” so hopefully I can get an answer and update people.

** yeah, I probably didn’t describe this originally, but I keep a code reader in the car and from the very beginning of the troubles, I was getting pre-ignition errors. I was using high octane.

 

[RUN-8]

Don’t be surprised if you don’t get any final answer in written form, maybe you will.

I would ask the master tech doing the work if he has any theory on what caused the damage, and if it is something he can or did already address…. Like going back in with two new injectors, a new plug, and a new coil on number 4, along with any related sensors.

 

[Bad1975]

@RUN-8 Spot on for washout, except it should throw codes if and injector is stuck on or not firing and the same for a coil pack and knock (knock usually will set of crank position errors as well depending upon severity). You'll actually get misfire event codes and fuel injector codes as well as AFR codes provided the system is working correctly. The whole engine shudders and vibrates and there is a lack of power in this case.

Just had an injector failure on our Volvo. No power, and horrible engine vibration, Injector circuit open code, Misfire Cylinder 4, Multi cylinder misfire and something for AFR can't remember? Replaced all 5 injectors, coil packs and plugs along with oil change and all was good didn't even have to reset the codes. UOA will tell the rest of the story as it had to be driven a few miles.

 

[Lenny33]

Don’t be surprised if you don’t get any final answer in written form, maybe you will.

I would ask the master tech doing the work if he has any theory on what caused the damage, and if it is something he can or did already address…. Like going back in with two new injectors, a new plug, and a new coil on number 4, along with any related sensors.

Appreciate the advise. I have been in conversations with my service advisor and he has told me that he is fine with me coming down to the shop and talking over the whole process with the master tech, as soon as they dig into it.

 

[Bad1975]

Ask for a Used oil analysis if they haven't drained it yet.

 

[Mtn40]

I would trust it.
I don't remember whether you already have an extended warranty? If not try to get one with the repair.

My logic is that it was a very small chance this issue occurred. It will be an even smaller chance of second occurrence. Or that your truck has more than one of these rarely occurring issues.
It sounds like you're happy with the dealership that is working on your truck, so that's a big benefit, but that's the other big variable.
It will always be in the back of your mind and you have to decide if you can live with that, but I think odds are in your favor once the truck is fixed.

I'm hoping to do the same thing as you; buy a small TT in a few years and pull it occasionally with my 250, so I may have a bias here. I believe that the truck is designed to handle this task. Maybe in a couple years we'll find out it's not a good idea, but for now I think it's a logical decision.

I would do all you can to mitigate any other issues as someone else mentioned: install the extra trans cooler, watch the temps, etc. (I know that's not the issue you had, but just to keep all components as happy as possible), and go back to using it how you were using it.

 

[Bad1975]

Pre-Ignition errors would suggest knock or crank sensor, coil pack randomly firing (Short) or normally heat if the timing isn't out of whack, the heat could be caused by lack of injector firing. Fuel injection is an important part of the temperature regulation (cooling) in the cylinder before the next firing. The heat build up in one cylinder would likely lead to scoring over time.

I hope Toyota does a full analysis/investigation on what items could have caused the issue rather than just fix it.

 

[Lenny33]

I would trust it.
I don't remember whether you already have an extended warranty? If not try to get one with the repair.

My logic is that it was a very small chance this issue occurred. It will be an even smaller chance of second occurrence. Or that your truck has more than one of these rarely occurring issues.
It sounds like you're happy with the dealership that is working on your truck, so that's a big benefit, but that's the other big variable.
It will always be in the back of your mind and you have to decide if you can live with that, but I think odds are in your favor once the truck is fixed.

I'm hoping to do the same thing as you; buy a small TT in a few years and pull it occasionally with my 250, so I may have a bias here. I believe that the truck is designed to handle this task. Maybe in a couple years we'll find out it's not a good idea, but for now I think it's a logical decision.

I would do all you can to mitigate any other issues as someone else mentioned: install the extra trans cooler, watch the temps, etc. (I know that's not the issue you had, but just to keep all components as happy as possible), and go back to using it how you were using it.

I have the extended warranty of 7 years and 100k - I thought it was a prudent move to make given the first run of a new platform.

One of the guys that I talked to that had a similar issue and did not take the buyback was offered Toyota’s longest term platinum warranty. If I were able to get that, it would go a long ways towards easing my concerns even more..

 

[Bad1975]

I'd at least ask for the powertrain warranty mileage to be reset after replacement but would use that as last negotiation attempt.

1. Ask for Long Platinum with PT mileage reset and free maintenance PT intervals reset.
2. Just Platinum
3. Keep current warranty but they pay you back what you paid
4. PT mileage and free maintenance reset and connected services for 3 years

 

[Lenny33]

Pre-Ignition errors would suggest knock or crank sensor, coil pack randomly firing (Short) or normally heat if the timing isn't out of whack, the heat could be caused by lack of injector firing. Fuel injection is an important part of the temperature regulation (cooling) in the cylinder before the next firing. The heat build up in one cylinder would likely lead to scoring over time.

I hope Toyota does a full analysis/investigation on what items could have caused the issue rather than just fix it.

That explanation is getting above my weekend mechanic pay grade, but I understand what you are saying.

 

[Lenny33]

I'd at least ask for the powertrain warranty mileage to be reset after replacement but would use that as last negotiation attempt.

1. Ask for Long Platinum with PT mileage reset and free maintenance PT intervals reset.
2. Just Platinum
3. Keep current warranty but they pay you back what you paid
4. PT mileage and free maintenance reset and connected services for 3 years

Thank you for that - super helpful!

 

[RUN-8]

@RUN-8 Spot on for washout, except it should throw codes if and injector is stuck on or not firing and the same for a coil pack and knock (knock usually will set of crank position errors as well depending upon severity). You'll actually get misfire event codes and fuel injector codes as well as AFR codes provided the system is working correctly. The whole engine shudders and vibrates and there is a lack of power in this case.

Just had an injector failure on our Volvo. No power, and horrible engine vibration, Injector circuit open code, Misfire Cylinder 4, Multi cylinder misfire and something for AFR can't remember? Replaced all 5 injectors, coil packs and plugs along with oil change and all was good didn't even have to reset the codes. UOA will tell the rest of the story as it had to be driven a few miles.

Agreed it should throw specific codes, but in this instance maybe the degradation in function was gradual? Beats me.

 

[D-Train]

How often would you say you have pulled with yours?

I had pulled about 7 times up and over the passes. Pulled great right up until it didn’t anymore.

3 times, up and over Kenosha both ways from Denver. Really light towing, not even sure I engaged tow mode (raft and trailer). Sorry to hear the troubles..