Honest LC250 review that goes into more technical details & why Toyota missed the mark on LC250

[TakaraLC]

This is not an engine dyno. Chassis dyno can't easily measure power in the low rpm's because torque converter stall speed and especially because of the automatic transmission. You want a 1:1 gear ratio which would be like 6th gear. Even if manually selected, it'll kick down gears once you step on it.

The TTV6 dyno is very nice with a near flat power band throughout the entire range. Makes great torque from 2k rpm and above. At 1500 rpm, the torque converter is still slipping and the torque multiplier is roughly 2.5 to 1 during slippage. There is no shortage of low end torque, especially in low range.

This is true stock but the approach and departure angles are easily changed. That hybrid crossmember hangs down low an inch and there is nothing you can do about it. Just like the 4th gen 4Runners.... often get caught on their low crossmember.

I agree, exterior styling wise, the 250 will age better. Drivetrain wise, the TTV6 will be less labored and certainly less complex. Less labored, especially in the mid to upper range. Less complex.... we can say the hybrid system is reliable as seen on all the Toyota road vehicles but it adds an additional layer of complexity. It's not a redundant system like the LX700h. Off road vehicles are best when simple. You can trail fix a lot of mechanical failures but electronics can strand you worse. You would need an ASE master mechanic with shop diagnosis equipment to fix.

If still not convinced, the rear diff would tip the scales in favor of the GX. It is not only stronger, less stressed... given the high torque of the 250, this should be of consideration for the moderate/heavy off-roader.

Every dyno you see out there that is not from a manufacturer is a chassis dyno. Nobody is going to pull an engine out, design a custom ECU to be able to fire it up, just to run a crank dyno. Also overall, what matters is power and torque at the wheels.

About the torque converter slipping during the test, the plot already says it was measured at 4th gear, so it is not slipping. I have no doubt that people who do dynos for a living know how to conduct the test.

But I guess since it makes GX look bad, so we should either ignore it, downplay it, or simply move the goal post.

 

[Truckee]

You're referencing a K&N dyno plot for a sales brochure? Don't you know K&N is like the snake oil of air filters? Like I said earlier, ignore the numbers, look at the curve. Dynos are a tuning tool. You can't really compare two different vehicles on two different dynos using two different gear ratios, etc.

 

[teghogh]

lots of talk about Engine outputs being similar between LC250 and Gx550. if anyone in socal want to do a back to back comparison and report back here i have a GX OT that we can use. we can also do a MPG comparison to settle all the MPG, power debates once and for all. but i can 100% percent assure you than the power deliveries are not even comparable. the GX feels like it has 100 more HP than my LC250 at any speed. when it comes to gas mileage it is too close on the fwy speeds and 2mpg less on the city streets in my route. my fellow socal LC250s, PM me if you are available for a semi scientific test

 

[teghogh]

This is not an engine dyno. Chassis dyno can't easily measure power in the low rpm's because torque converter stall speed and especially because of the automatic transmission. You want a 1:1 gear ratio which would be like 6th gear. Even if manually selected, it'll kick down gears once you step on it.

The TTV6 dyno is very nice with a near flat power band throughout the entire range. Makes great torque from 2k rpm and above. At 1500 rpm, the torque converter is still slipping and the torque multiplier is roughly 2.5 to 1 during slippage. There is no shortage of low end torque, especially in low range.

This is true stock but the approach and departure angles are easily changed. That hybrid crossmember hangs down low an inch and there is nothing you can do about it. Just like the 4th gen 4Runners.... often get caught on their low crossmember.

I agree, exterior styling wise, the 250 will age better. Drivetrain wise, the TTV6 will be less labored and certainly less complex. Less labored, especially in the mid to upper range. Less complex.... we can say the hybrid system is reliable as seen on all the Toyota road vehicles but it adds an additional layer of complexity. It's not a redundant system like the LX700h. Off road vehicles are best when simple. You can trail fix a lot of mechanical failures but electronics can strand you worse. You would need an ASE master mechanic with shop diagnosis equipment to fix.

If still not convinced, the rear diff would tip the scales in favor of the GX. It is not only stronger, less stressed... given the high torque of the 250, this should be of consideration for the moderate/heavy off-roader.

when it comes to offroad, GX OT has 1 inch addtional ground clearance compared to LC250, Better CVs that allow for more travel with aftermarket shocks, and rear swaybard disconnect, way better stock wheels and tires, built in compressor, but our friends here seem to overlook these 5 main advantages when it comes to offroad. i guess ground clearance is overrated. but wait GX also has 10% lower crawl ratio in 4lo as well. but i guess no one needs that. how about adjustable shocks to smooth out bumps offroad? no. id like to keep it simple. what about front and rear swaybars being able to independently connect disconnect going over obstacles to reduce headbob? no i like having that feeling. how about being able to stuff 35s on stock suspension with the addtional 1 inch lift? no id like to put spacers on my shocks so i can fit 35s

 

[jbtaco2002]

are the GX550, Tacoma "better CVs" compatible with the LC?

 

[TakaraLC]

You're referencing a K&N dyno plot for a sales brochure? Don't you know K&N is like the snake oil of air filters? Like I said earlier, ignore the numbers, look at the curve. Dynos are a tuning tool. You can't really compare two different vehicles on two different dynos using two different gear ratios, etc.

But I guess since it makes GX look bad, so we should either ignore it, downplay it, or simply move the goal post.

Thanks for proving my point lol.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Which proves my point that it is not a decision to comply with regulatory requirements since LC will not be offsetting anything at fleet level. It has one of the lowest sales volume of any vehicle across Toyota’s lineup.

It would appear that the sales number is climbing rapidly.....They have already sold more LC250's than the previous 15 years. Folks like me that never wanted a 5800-6000lb gas guzzling V8 powered, poorly space efficient vehicle....which is IMHO exactly what the older ones were..........bout the only thing out there less efficient than a Range Rover or old Land Rover. I am on board do to dealership proximity, a less than desirable design loom of Lexus in general and desire for a vehicle that will hopefully not depreciate like a brick.

You can make an LC250 anything you want. Also fully agree with a few reviews stating lighter is better offroading as well...........losing weight is a rare breed in the automotive industry. We are all stuck with a lot of overweight pigs out there. Muscle cars mislabeled as sports cars etc. 3800lb Vettes....laughable and I don't care if it has 10K HP

 

[AustinLC250]

My scientific evidence why the Toyota is better than the Lexus is... My wife thinks Lexus is for old people and soccer moms from Highland Park.

In all honesty, I chose the 250 because I like the exterior and interior better. It was also a little cheaper than the "base" OT GX, and the GX doesn't have leather seats, a wireless charger or a HUD.

I like both.

 

[Winchester44]

Re-read what I said. I did not voice my opinion on whether the 250 is a real Land Cruiser or not. However, I'm 100% certain it is a Light Duty Land Cruiser. Fact.

I'll try it again....

I find it funny folks on here are up in arms about whether the 250 Is a real Land Cruiser or not. But when asked about the GX550.... which by code name is a J252... deny that is a Land Cruiser, A real Land Cruiser or even a Light Duty Land Cruiser. It is SOOOOO important that they have a "Land Cruiser" and not a "Prado," but they slam the door shut on the GX550, which is a better off-road vehicle than the 250.

I stand corrected you were not the guy saying it was not a land cruiser and was a Prado claiming that those two are mutually exclusive. They are in fact different, but both land cruisers just as you said.

 

[Winchester44]

My scientific evidence why the Toyota is better than the Lexus is... My wife thinks Lexus is for old people and soccer moms from Highland Park.

In all honesty, I chose the 250 because I like the exterior and interior better. It was also a little cheaper than the "base" OT GX, and the GX doesn't have leather seats, a wireless charger or a HUD.

I like both.

If you know where highland park is, that is pretty funny. My soccer mom wife drives a GX 460, but she's also had it way above timberline in San Miguel County, CO

 

[Winchester44]

The TTV6 dyno is very nice with a near flat power band throughout the entire range. Makes great torque from 2k rpm and above.

Serious question: How much off road driving have you done?

 

[Altitude]

With respect to GX owners who can drive whatever they want without caring what I think. The Land Cruiser is a cooler vehicle.

By which I mean that the GX is the Lexus version of the Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser is not the Toyota version of the GX.

If the LC had been available with the 6 cylinder engine I would have checked that box though, to be clear.

 

[Winchester44]

when it comes to offroad, GX OT has 1 inch addtional ground clearance compared to LC250, Better CVs that allow for more travel with aftermarket shocks, and rear swaybard disconnect, way better stock wheels and tires, built in compressor, but our friends here seem to overlook these 5 main advantages when it comes to offroad. i guess ground clearance is overrated. but wait GX also has 10% lower crawl ratio in 4lo as well. but i guess no one needs that. how about adjustable shocks to smooth out bumps offroad? no. id like to keep it simple. what about front and rear swaybars being able to independently connect disconnect going over obstacles to reduce headbob? no i like having that feeling. how about being able to stuff 35s on stock suspension with the addtional 1 inch lift? no id like to put spacers on my shocks so i can fit 35s

You seem to be overlooking the $15K-$20K price difference. Throw that kind of money into upgrades on an LC250 and you could cure those very minor differences and then some. No fixing that the LC250 has the vastly more appropriate motor and is 600 pounds lighter to begin with.

 

[Truckee]

Serious question: How much off road driving have you done?

I've done a fair share. Over 20 years and 10 different trucks/SUV's including diesels, both straight front axle and IFS. Closest 4wd trail is just 15 minutes away.

I understand your love for diesels and I would choose so for an overland/touring vehicle. I know what you are getting at. Two of my close wheeling buddies drive diesel jeeps. I've owned three diesels. I don't want a diesel for recreational wheeling. The power band is a bit short, nobody wants to follow my loud, stinky truck. The modern diesels using DEF are quiet and clean though....

 

[teghogh]

You seem to be overlooking the $15K-$20K price difference. Throw that kind of money into upgrades on an LC250 and you could cure those very minor differences and then some. No fixing that the LC250 has the vastly more appropriate motor and is 600 pounds lighter to begin with.

Gx ot msrp is 73k . And lc250 weighs the same as the gx

 

[teghogh]

You seem to be overlooking the $15K-$20K price difference. Throw that kind of money into upgrades on an LC250 and you could cure those very minor differences and then some. No fixing that the LC250 has the vastly more appropriate motor and is 600 pounds lighter to begin with.

Again if you could buy a lclc with 65k msrp for 60k I’d say it’s a good enough price jump to justify either option but lclc premium with swaybar disconnect msrp is 72k , within 1k of gx ot msrp

 

[BlueCruiser]

Again if you could buy a lclc with 65k msrp for 60k I’d say it’s a good enough price jump to justify either option but lclc premium with swaybar disconnect msrp is 72k , within 1k of gx ot msrp

The LCLC premium is more equivalent to the OT+ and it costs about $15K more when you include the greater tax on a bigger base. So the LC is a much better value for that comparison.

 

[teghogh]

The LCLC premium is more equivalent to the OT+ and it costs about $15K more when you include the greater tax on a bigger base. So the LC is a much better value for that comparison.

The only thing lc premium has over ot is digital mirror and real leather.

 

[BlueCruiser]

I believe it also doesn't have the following per their website:

3-zone climate control
Wireless phone charger
Illuminated door sills
Cooler box
Upgraded sound system
2400 watt inverter
Digital key

So those plus the leather and digital mirror are significant and make it a better comparison to the OT+.

 

[TakaraLC]

I believe it also doesn't have the following per their website:

3-zone climate control
Wireless phone charger
Illuminated door sills
Cooler box
Upgraded sound system
2400 watt inverter
Digital key

So those plus the leather and digital mirror are significant and make it a better comparison to the OT+.

Also color changing led fog lights, HUD and bunch of additional driver assist futures like automatic lane change, traffic jam assist etc.