In Praise Of... The Mis-Cast and Misunderstood LC250

[Altitude]

I have driven BMW turbo 4s and agree that those are smoother sounding (and running) and get why even just a smooth sound vs one that sounds clattery probably appeals to more people overall. But for me, that sound and smoothness is appropriate for a German sports sedan but absolutely out of place in a rugged BOF truck if it has to be coarse and clattery vs smooth and angry. Given the personality of a Land Cruiser, the more agricultural and diesel like sound suits it fine, but I'm likely in the minority with this opinion given I am an enthusiast vs. the plain down the fairway buyer who doesn't care about lineage, purpose, etc and just thinks "this is a somewhat expensive car and I could have bought a _______ (fill in the smooth crossover) for the same price and its got a smooth and quiet engine".

Fair enough. I also think the engine sounds fine in the LC. Many don’t though, and every review I’ve read mentions it. Just saying that had Toyota made it a priority, it would have been possible to refine the engine sound a bit.

 

[The Duke]

I feel compelled to write a review for the LC250 after seeing so many negative or mixed reviews and having recently had a loaner Tundra non-Hybrid with the GX550 engine for 5 days. I have sit in the Lexus GX550 at the dealer and in a neighbor's and have now driven (in the form of the Tundra) that drivetrain (albeit the North American produced version and not the Japanese assembled version) and came away with several take-aways. For starters, that Tundra engine is butter smooth and accordingly, the soundtrack is deep, throaty and akin to the sound of ripping velvet. It's a lively motor with a relatively linear response and you can clearly feel the hole-shot acceleration from a dead-stop in a way the LC250 does not have. While it was a loaner vehicle, I never drove it like it wasn't my own and in the 5 days of mixed highway and local driving, I was getting 12.4 MPGs. The car was on Falken Wildpeaks and they were 3-ply 35" but the mileage was abysmal. Fun sounds and smooth power delivery but those MPGs are not for me.

People often say, given the price and similarities, the GX550 is the clear winner over the LC250. It's not for everyone, but for me, that is definitely not the case. I don't need to consistently tow over 6k lbs. The LC250 iForce Max powertrain is coarse and it sounds gruff and clattery... like a turbo-diesel. One of my neighbors drives a BMW turbo-diesel wagon so I hear that clatter often and it reminds me of many adventures abroad where diesels abound. I often read people complaining about the LC250 not offering the twin-turbo 6 from the GX550 or that they wish the non-U.S. market turbo diesel drivetrain was an option in North America. For the former, I feel like you should just buy the GX550 and be happy and for the latter, the existing powertrain offering is pretty much the sound, feel and delivery of a turbo diesel in the form of a gasoline engine. In fact, it very much reminds me of the power and sound of the prior gen turbo diesel Prados I rented and drove in Costa Rica and Iceland over the years... not super quick but powerful and with lots of grunty low-end which suits their use case in those environments and most rugged terrain driving. The styling of the Land Cruiser, it being a Toyota and not a Lexus and the interior materials (real leather for higher trims vs Nu Luxe) and layout (more buttons), upper rear passenger air vents (better for rear-facing kid car seats) much better suits my tastes and needs. The Land Cruiser feels like a very nice but still utilitarian tool car vs a more opulent and overtly stylized (but still handsome) car like the Lexus. I really dislike how wide and low the front grill of the GX550 sits but think the colors they offer it in are nice.

My LC250 is sitting on E-Load rated 285 70 R18 tires and when I drive it in Eco mode and drive smoothly, I am still averaging 18-21 in the city and 22-24 MPGs on the flatter highways. Today I did an hour drive (44 miles in each direction) to the mountains and was getting 14.72 MPGs (corrected for tire size) on the way out and climbing up the mountain to the lake and 42.26 MPGs on the way back down for a round trip average of 28.49 MPGs. Anytime I need to call on power to keep my car moving (even at higher elevation) or to overtake others, it has plenty of power. To me, the diesel like power delivery, clattery sounds... all if it has character and the drivetrain seems fit for purpose if you want a rugged and utilitarian go-anywhere BOF SUV. I think many of the most critical reviews of this car come from people who have very different needs and expectations which isn't entirely their fault, since the LC 200 and LC 300 are much more comfort focused offerings, but to me this LC250 is plenty nice while still remaining functionally utilitarian and nimble and I think Toyota hit it out of the park.

Very enjoyable read. Well written and comprehensive.

 

[mrCharlie]

I have driven BMW turbo 4s and agree that those are smoother sounding (and running) and get why even just a smooth sound vs one that sounds clattery probably appeals to more people overall. But for me, that sound and smoothness is appropriate for a German sports sedan but absolutely out of place in a rugged BOF truck if it has to be coarse and clattery vs smooth and angry. Given the personality of a Land Cruiser, the more agricultural and diesel like sound suits it fine, but I'm likely in the minority with this opinion given I am an enthusiast vs. the plain down the fairway buyer who doesn't care about lineage, purpose, etc and just thinks "this is a somewhat expensive car and I could have bought a _______ (fill in the smooth crossover) for the same price and its got a smooth and quiet engine".

BMW does cheat on the sound with Active Sound Design - much of the sound in the cabin is artificial, and played through the audio system. I suppose it's better than annoying everyone outside the car with a loud exhaust, at least from the factory. I really enjoyed the (real) sounds of my old BMWs back in the day, though all of those were straight sixes. We did however disable the fake "engine" noises in my wife's i4, that feels wrong in an EV.

I am among those who like the diesel-y sounds of the LC. I think it suits it, and there is something honest about it which is a running theme with the LC. Interestingly, now that I've had both, I did feel like the engine noise was more pronounced in my 1958 than my Premium. Could be imagination, could be just the cushier interior, or even active noise cancelation.

 

[SKLC]

This is by far the most complimented vehicle I’ve ever owned. It’s actually my wife’s (officially), and we joke about how many compliments she gets in any given week. We’ve got a Traildust, mostly stock LC/LC, and turns heads and draws double takes most everywhere we go.

Strangers walk up and start talking to her about ditch lights, sway bar disconnects, roof racks, locking diffs, and how it performs off-road—she just laughs because she usually has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve had people stop me at red lights to ask about it, walk across parking lots to snap a photo, some dive into 30-minute conversations on the new vs. older gen models, and about how it’s their dream rig.

Honestly, it’s mine too. It puts a smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel and fun to chat with folks who are inquisitive about it. I love the look, have grown to like the 4 banger, and slightly more utilitarian side of this vehicle. It’s starting to feel like a favorite pair of worn-in hiking boots or that old ball cap you can’t part with. I think Toyota really nailed it—and I think most LC owners would agree.

 

[Gasherbrum]

I think Toyota nailed it as well. I just got off an early morning drive from DC up to the CT shore. Was filling up at a rest plaza and a guy with a big grin came up to me, said he once owned a ‘96 LC and loves the look of the new ones. He did a double take when he saw I was also brewing a Nespresso using the power inverter while filling up.

I ended up just north of 27 mpg actual on this trip which I find pretty amazing (I went early enough to miss the NYC mayhem going over the GW Bridge).This is seriously the best vehicle I’ve ever owned.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Amusing we are comparing beemer 4 bangers here.
#1 are they hybrid powertrains???I don't think so
Are they ridiculous to repair...YUP I have experienced Buy More Warranty. No thanks

 

[Phillyfisher]

Agree. We get a lot of compliments as well. Nice not having one of the more common run of the mill SUVs.

 

[Altitude]

Amusing we are comparing beemer 4 bangers here.
#1 are they hybrid powertrains???I don't think so
Are they ridiculous to repair...YUP I have experienced Buy More Warranty. No thanks

The point I made that led us down the bimmer* comparison was just that Toyota decided not to make the engine sound aggressive and could have if they chose to. BMW chose to, though they are responding to a very different brief.

I think the engine sound in the Land Cruiser is fine. I would have been OK if they’d taken a more performance driven sound approach too. It’s no big deal.

* it’s “bimmer” for the cars and “beemer” for the motorcycles. No idea why

 

[teghogh]

The point I made that led us down the bimmer* comparison was just that Toyota decided not to make the engine sound aggressive and could have if they chose to. BMW chose to, though they are responding to a very different brief.

I think the engine sound in the Land Cruiser is fine. I would have been OK if they’d taken a more performance driven sound approach too. It’s no big deal.

* it’s “bimmer” for the cars and “beemer” for the motorcycles. No idea why

Don’t mind people here. They are a sensitive much that are easily bothered . You are trying to make a logical point about the trashy sound of the engine with people that believe it is appropriate for character of this truck and believe that lc250 is on par with Bronco raptor off-road .

 

[Sugarloafer80]

The point I made that led us down the bimmer* comparison was just that Toyota decided not to make the engine sound aggressive and could have if they chose to. BMW chose to, though they are responding to a very different brief.

I think the engine sound in the Land Cruiser is fine. I would have been OK if they’d taken a more performance driven sound approach too. It’s no big deal.

* it’s “bimmer” for the cars and “beemer” for the motorcycles. No idea why

Canned sound is fake.......

 

[LC newbie]

just trade in my land cruiser for GX550 premium+. LC is a good car but the sounds of the engine is so bad and the mpg is not good as should be as a 4 cylinder car. I did not do any modifications on LC but I still only got 15 mpg in city driving. tbh, gx provides more luxury feel than LC but the price is not that big difference. I paid 68700 for the LC with the window sticker price as 72400 or 72300 I can not remember well. and this gx I paid 74103. it is only 6k difference but really different feeling for the interior and driving and the noise cancellation in the highway. I got 66K for the trade in for 6 month driving which hold its value really well.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Enjoy, hope that motor behaves and you are tougher than I am to tolerate that front end. BTW, in testing there was a 1db difference between the 2

 

[COSmurf]

Don’t mind people here. They are a sensitive much that are easily bothered . You are trying to make a logical point about the trashy sound of the engine with people that believe it is appropriate for character of this truck and believe that lc250 is on par with Bronco raptor off-road .

You are on a Land Cruiser forum going on and on about how for the same money everybody should buy a Raptor F150 pickup or Raptor Bronco… which is totally fine but the presumption for most people here is that they did adult analysis and research before committing to buying a Land Cruiser and didn’t get buyers remorse after they subsequently discovered they could alternatively purchase a Bro Stadium Truck. Most people aren’t cross shopping the two because they find Ford reliability, build quality, fit and finish suspect and enjoy being able to speak to their passengers on the highway instead of having REALLY REALLY BIG LOOK AT ME stadium trucks that legally require orange markers due to their commercial vehicle like width. Like the tires and wind noise during a highway drive in the BRaptor, your continued pushing of the Bronco Raptor speaks very loudly about your priorities… BRO. It’s not irrational at all to prefer a Land Cruiser to a Bronco Raptor, it’s just a preference. Yes, you can run over a lot bigger boulders in your Bronco Raptor…. Cool man.

 

[chris_in_phx]

i did not know the GX did not have the headliner vents - i thought that was the reason the LC had them.

I think the overtrails do not. But the premium and lux do.

 

[teghogh]

You are on a Land Cruiser forum going on and on about how for the same money everybody should buy a Raptor F150 pickup or Raptor Bronco… which is totally fine but the presumption for most people here is that they did adult analysis and research before committing to buying a Land Cruiser and didn’t get buyers remorse after they subsequently discovered they could alternatively purchase a Bro Stadium Truck. Most people aren’t cross shopping the two because they find Ford reliability, build quality, fit and finish suspect and enjoy being able to speak to their passengers on the highway instead of having REALLY REALLY BIG LOOK AT ME stadium trucks that legally require orange markers due to their commercial vehicle like width. Like the tires and wind noise during a highway drive in the BRaptor, your continued pushing of the Bronco Raptor speaks very loudly about your priorities… BRO. It’s not irrational at all to prefer a Land Cruiser to a Bronco Raptor, it’s just a preference. Yes, you can run over a lot bigger boulders in your Bronco Raptor…. Cool man.

Great rational analysis by someone that thinks sound and smoothness is appropriate for a German sports sedan but absolutely out of place in a rugged BOF truck. This engine is so great they should put it on all flagship body on frame trucks Toyota produces lc300 and lx600 included. I hear aftermarket is working on lc200 retrofit Kits to swap the v8 with the 4cyl force max due to high demand now that there is finally an engine that matches the character of 3 ton body on frame truck.

 

[RideWithYanu]

I keep hearing the buzzing of a fly.

 

[teghogh]

I keep hearing the buzzing of a fly.

Smart ass , is that you ?

 

[BlueCruiser]

just trade in my land cruiser for GX550 premium+. LC is a good car but the sounds of the engine is so bad and the mpg is not good as should be as a 4 cylinder car. I did not do any modifications on LC but I still only got 15 mpg in city driving. tbh, gx provides more luxury feel than LC but the price is not that big difference. I paid 68700 for the LC with the window sticker price as 72400 or 72300 I can not remember well. and this gx I paid 74103. it is only 6k difference but really different feeling for the interior and driving and the noise cancellation in the highway. I got 66K for the trade in for 6 month driving which hold its value really well.

Just got this gas mileage on my commute today. How is 29 MPG not good enough?

 

[Sugarloafer80]

You are on a Land Cruiser forum going on and on about how for the same money everybody should buy a Raptor F150 pickup or Raptor Bronco… which is totally fine but the presumption for most people here is that they did adult analysis and research before committing to buying a Land Cruiser and didn’t get buyers remorse after they subsequently discovered they could alternatively purchase a Bro Stadium Truck. Most people aren’t cross shopping the two because they find Ford reliability, build quality, fit and finish suspect and enjoy being able to speak to their passengers on the highway instead of having REALLY REALLY BIG LOOK AT ME stadium trucks that legally require orange markers due to their commercial vehicle like width. Like the tires and wind noise during a highway drive in the BRaptor, your continued pushing of the Bronco Raptor speaks very loudly about your priorities… BRO. It’s not irrational at all to prefer a Land Cruiser to a Bronco Raptor, it’s just a preference. Yes, you can run over a lot bigger boulders in your Bronco Raptor…. Cool man.

Nothing more fun than dusting a Raptor in my little v6 RR last winter. His head swelling popped quickly. Dumbass forgot he was like 5700lbs on 37 in wheels. Sounded meaner than it really was.....weight again...the enemy.

Look, poking the bear for a reason. If you set your vehicle up for offroad, don't go messing with an on road vehicle. Yes you are faster over the railroad tracks, but keep it real. Jeepers seem to think they are driving sports cars in my area. Laughable. These Raptor dudes are definitely compensating for something.

 

[hookem512]

Great rational analysis by someone that thinks sound and smoothness is appropriate for a German sports sedan but absolutely out of place in a rugged BOF truck. This engine is so great they should put it on all flagship body on frame trucks Toyota produces lc300 and lx600 included. I hear aftermarket is working on lc200 retrofit Kits to swap the v8 with the 4cyl force max due to high demand now that there is finally an engine that matches the character of 3 ton body on frame truck.

You hear that from your asshole or something?