He did. without realizing it. Reductio ad Absurdum
Honest LC250 review that goes into more technical details & why Toyota missed the mark on LC250
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They are not toyotas and they are not land cruisers. Reading comprehension is key. My statement was that the Land Cruiser 250 that is sold here in the US makes MORE TORQUE than any Land Cruiser ever (released in the USA). Land Cruisers are made by Toyota. Toyota OWNS Lexus, and thus many parts/model traits are shared between the companies vehicles. But they are not one and the same.
My initial point is accurate. Since you can't refute it, you turn to semantics. Sucks to be as butthurt as you, doesn't it?
That’s a bit pedantic though. They are Land Cruisers in all but name. They are the Lexus variants of the 300-series Land Cruiser.
Yeah I at least know enough to not share the dyno for Tundra iforce max. GX550 has the low performance version of this setup.
Your exact words... "No land cruiser ever made has more than the current J250..."
Ever made.... means... ever made. They make most of these in Japan you know.
That is also a RWD dyno. Much more difficult to find an AWD dyno. Would be easier to disconnect the front driveshaft... but the electronics might not like that. The point is not the numbers but the torque curve. But the TTV6 motor is easily tunable for more.
I do find it funny how so many members will fight tooth and nail to claim the 250 as a real Land Cruiser. It is so important for them to carry that name and be part of the family, that heritage. But when asked why they didn't buy the GX550. "Oh, I would never own a Lexus."
To me, the name is not important, it's what's underneath.
That torque curve is with the exact hybrid system that is in the LC250. This is what the confin in GX550 looks like.
As a comparison, this is what the config in LC250 is (red stock, blue tuned). It has higher torque at 1000RPM than what GX550 has at peak, and basically LC250 has higher torque regardless of RPM.
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The 250/550 are both real Land Cruisers. So are the 300/600. So is the 70. They all continue Toyota’s strategy for the Land Cruiser brand that they have had in place since 1984 with the LZ70: create three lines within the family which offer tradeoffs between comfort, performance, durability, and price. Use market intelligence to determine which models to offer in each area.
I’d argue that the 550 version of the Prado series (and to a much greater extent the 600) is a slow continuation of a departure from some of the core features of the brand, such as function over form - but that’s my opinion.
Sorry to interrupt the riveting graph discussion
Were my FJ Cruisers Land Cruisers? They had small gas tanks too.
Absolutely. It’s essentially a short wheelbase J120 with retro styling. I wish the 250 had a version of this!
You’re one of the only people on the planet—aside from a few YouTube clickbait artists—claiming the J250 isn’t a real Land Cruiser. And now you’re obsessively arguing that a twin-turbo V6 is somehow the superior engine for a Land Cruiser. Such a claim says much about the limits of your credibility.
Re-read what I said. I did not voice my opinion on whether the 250 is a real Land Cruiser or not. However, I'm 100% certain it is a Light Duty Land Cruiser. Fact.
I'll try it again....
I find it funny folks on here are up in arms about whether the 250 Is a real Land Cruiser or not. But when asked about the GX550.... which by code name is a J252... deny that is a Land Cruiser, A real Land Cruiser or even a Light Duty Land Cruiser. It is SOOOOO important that they have a "Land Cruiser" and not a "Prado," but they slam the door shut on the GX550, which is a better off-road vehicle than the 250.
I'll try it again....
I find it funny folks on here are up in arms about whether the 250 Is a real Land Cruiser or not. But when asked about the GX550.... which by code name is a J252... deny that is a Land Cruiser, A real Land Cruiser or even a Light Duty Land Cruiser. It is SOOOOO important that they have a "Land Cruiser" and not a "Prado," but they slam the door shut on the GX550, which is a better off-road vehicle than the 250.
The 250 has a far better drivetrain and significantly better approach angles over the 550 for off-roading as far as I’m concerned, but I’m happy you’re happy with the 550.
I’m not sure what is better for off-road ?
There are tradeoffs to be had so it’s silly when people insist that the GX is superior in every way, even when it’s not subjective but merely factual info like approach angle, available low-end torque and fuel economy.
If one wants a quicker 0-60 SUV, or to tow upwards of 6k lbs, the GX is also undeniably the better car for that. I don’t do 0-60 flat out drags in my body on frame car.
And then for me the subjective styling side of things… Lexus design language often ages poorly. But I think many of their peers in the luxury badge space do as well because the designs look good when they’re brand new but dated in a few years due to their avant garde aim. Apart from true much older classics, a 4-5 year old BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti look dated as soon as the next generation comes out. Conversely, more utilitarian trucks and SUVs age well… think older 4Runners, Land Cruisers, Monteros, Xterras, ladder frame Pathfinders of past…. What they have in common is rugged simplicity vs a bejazzled exterior.
You keep making objectively false statements. It could be argued that the 550 is a better ON ROAD vehicle than the 250. "Could." However it is a verifiable fact that the 250 is better off road. The numbers are there for all to see. Not only is it better in the ways already mentioned, it also has better articulation than the 550.
Stop now. Your only digging your hole deeper.
This is not an engine dyno. Chassis dyno can't easily measure power in the low rpm's because torque converter stall speed and especially because of the automatic transmission. You want a 1:1 gear ratio which would be like 6th gear. Even if manually selected, it'll kick down gears once you step on it.
The TTV6 dyno is very nice with a near flat power band throughout the entire range. Makes great torque from 2k rpm and above. At 1500 rpm, the torque converter is still slipping and the torque multiplier is roughly 2.5 to 1 during slippage. There is no shortage of low end torque, especially in low range.
This is true stock but the approach and departure angles are easily changed. That hybrid crossmember hangs down low an inch and there is nothing you can do about it. Just like the 4th gen 4Runners.... often get caught on their low crossmember.
I agree, exterior styling wise, the 250 will age better. Drivetrain wise, the TTV6 will be less labored and certainly less complex. Less labored, especially in the mid to upper range. Less complex.... we can say the hybrid system is reliable as seen on all the Toyota road vehicles but it adds an additional layer of complexity. It's not a redundant system like the LX700h. Off road vehicles are best when simple. You can trail fix a lot of mechanical failures but electronics can strand you worse. You would need an ASE master mechanic with shop diagnosis equipment to fix.
If still not convinced, the rear diff would tip the scales in favor of the GX. It is not only stronger, less stressed... given the high torque of the 250, this should be of consideration for the moderate/heavy off-roader.
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