Adios Amigos, only made it 8 months...
- Thread starter PA-Cruiser 200
- Start date
Any time you want some drivetrain instructions feel free.....I predict there will be a common denominator here eventually. Eco, Norm mode, no diffs locked etc. No expert on this but the above adds up quick
and comparing it to a RAV4 shows a complete lack......please tell me your most recent vehicles to compare to. 70K in 2026 is what 50k was 10yrs ago.
Fully explained by the Subaru Troll line...make sure you run that extra quart so it doesn't oil starve on those lateral inclines.......and you WILL have a head gasket in your future so your tranny WILL outlive your motor sadly.... then again they have been known to fail at 50K too.
I do agree with the part about the front proximity sensors getting iced over. Around here in the winter that sometimes happens before I reach the highway getting out of my neighborhood, about 2 miles. I think it may happen on a lot of cars, but usually the system self-defeats until the next time you start the car. On these, it just keeps bitching at me until the ice goes away.Well, after just eight months, I have said goodbye to the LC250!
Here's a quick rundown on why I decided to depart from the 250:
-No outside dimming mirrors???, plastics are cheap, etc., etc., I could go on and on...
- The hood is thin and oil/tin cans and rattles/shakes as you drive, which is very distracting.
- The Ridged fog lights are too heavy for the front fascia and rattle and shake when hitting bumps, again, very distracting.
- The MPG rating is not accurate, a tank depending on season got me 275-325'ish miles and an average of 18-22 MPG.
- The safety system is terrible!!!! The cameras, even if you turn them "off" are still "on" and will give you popups if you cover them... And, if the front sensors get covered with snow, you can't acknowledge them and they go away, they relentlessly keep popping up!
- The removal of KDSS or E-KDSS means you get a LOT of body roll which made my kids car sick.
- Cramped driverās seat, my leg was always resting against the door (I'm not a big person!).
- Horrifically high rear load floor that gets super-hot if you over pack the rear compartment tight or mistakenly cover the rear ventā¦
But there are some good:
-Distinct looks and Trail Dust is the best color on any new vehicle. However, that rounds it out...
- The engine is quick and peppy.
- The steering is AMAZING and effortless.
- Seats are comfy.
Toyota could not fix my hood or fog light issues and said they were normal and gave me a 7yr/100k mile platinum warranty, but for $70+K, no thank you. You shouldnāt live with mediocrity in manufacturing. Maybe Toyota will fix the issues I find egregious, but for now, Iāll stick with my 2018 200 series. Not one issue since my purchase.
Truth is transparency: The MSRP was $70,898, I paid $66,000 out the door in November ā25. I sold it back to Toyota for $62,000. Not bad for 8 months.
I also have a set of OEM rectangle headlights for sale. I swapped them for the round FE/1958 headlights. If interested, please send me a message.
Good luck folks and thank you for all the dynamic conversations!
Technically I think you can dive deep into a menu to defeat the sensors, but that doesnāt seem like something you do in motion going down the road.
Yep the icing on the sensors is really bad in winter. Thatās an actual issue.
This is an internet forum, and what counts the most is generating posts! There will be never ending threads and posts along the lines of "does this wheel/tire fit?", or "do I need premium gas?", when searching could answer the question in seconds, because posters want the engagement and back and forth banter. Announcing your departure is the same, even though this isn't an airport.
I've been on plenty of Colorado trails up to an onX level 5, completely stock with Nitto Ridge Grapplers; no issues. None.
We can understand that you dislike the 250, but when you criticize it so harshly, especially when many people disagree, you come across as irrational and your opinion loses credibility.
If you are still in the market, I may have found just the thing for you. The Unimog G-wagon. Extremely capable, very luxurious and I doubt the hood rattles. 
www.daimlertruck.com
Mercedes-Benz Special Trucks unveils the most luxurious Unimog ever
To mark its 80th anniversary next year, Mercedes-Benz Special Trucks has taken on a special challenge: In collaboration with conversion partner Hellgeth Engineering, the most powerful off-road Unimog to date has been created as a show car for the ā¦
www.daimlertruck.com
Wow many interesting discussions/arguments here from different aspects and opinions !
To hundreds thousands LC owners out there in US and millions people in the world, the truth is that LC is dream for many people.
So sad for who had āvery short LC250 marriageā. Nothing is 100% satisfied 100% people.
To break those long conversations, let me share my personal experience ( whoās care
)
I am very happy and proud married with this 2 rigs beside my wife (in 30 yrs till today). These rigs will be with me till I canāt drive
. Must be longggg marriage life
Here are their photos (till now: G-9yrs, LC-2yrs)
To hundreds thousands LC owners out there in US and millions people in the world, the truth is that LC is dream for many people.
So sad for who had āvery short LC250 marriageā. Nothing is 100% satisfied 100% people.
To break those long conversations, let me share my personal experience ( whoās care
)I am very happy and proud married with this 2 rigs beside my wife (in 30 yrs till today). These rigs will be with me till I canāt drive
. Must be longggg marriage life Here are their photos (till now: G-9yrs, LC-2yrs)
Attachments
Exactly right. I appreciate and support legitimate criticism, even when I donāt have the same experience. OP is an example of this. Sparkles on the other hand immediately went to trolling territory, and I dismiss their posts without giving them the dignity of a reply. Itās pretty easy to separate the nonsense from real critique.
You can tell people are getting older because the reality of 80s car manufacturing has left the lexicon. Nothing being built today approaches the poor materials and build quality of those cars.
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Peace, but I just can't not enjoy a good burn on occasion. I go north tomorrow to wake mine up. She'll have the kayaks on her by Friday!!!!!
(Warning: I spent my entire career building control systems and user interfaces)
Having owned my 25 premium for about six months and having put 15000 miles on it, I just completed a near-5000 mile journey over two weeks covering two thirds of the country on interstate highways and approximately 1500 miles of Idaho back country on forest roads or trails (thanks for having me Idaho, I miss my time as a resident). For me, this is what I wanted my LC to do. It performed very well. With the obvious lower mileage and high cargo floor which are hassles as are the non lay-flat seats and small tank, but whatever, I knew those were there when I purchased. On a not so unrelated note , I'm unsure of the real mileage because the tires used for this trip are oversized and there's no way to change the effective tire diameter.
Skipping the pleasures of sure-footed capability and how great a substitute overlanding is for backpacking, my biggest complaint is the embedded conclusion in the control system: Toyota feels IT knows what you "need" better than you. I didn't think it would be this bad. From map screens that change their own settings (including orientation) from what you've selected back to default orientation settings if you look at anything else to glitzy transitions with twirling graphics that take away your instrument display for long seconds while driving if you change driving modes, it is NOT THIS DRIVER'S CONTROL SYSTEM. The video-game like antics on display conflict with real-time driving tasks and far too often require the driver's eyes to complete sequences for common tasks- it's ok when you're parked in an urban setting but unacceptable in dynamic driving situations. If the camera WATCHING YOU is blocked, say with a Factor-55 sticker as a crazy example, you have 30 minutes before an endlessly recurring warning will come up repeating itself every 5 seconds. This warning must be cleared each time interaction with the instrument cluster is needed (yes! I'm pig-headed enough to have had the message displayed near full time for weeks.) The fact that the vehicle, purportedly built for overlanding can, among other things, can kill its own battery with non-running electrical current requirements and yet does not have a "single button low power mode" is indicative. Many TSS systems also cannot be turned off, including the driver monitoring system alluded to above (a particular hot button for me- ever wonder what the data being collected is or who gets access to what?). Additionally, of the items that can be defeated, too many of the settings are not retentive and return TO THE TOYOTA SELECTED DEFAULTS on power cycle. The idea that a single set of defaults can support a multi-use vehicle with tons of user variability is ludicrous and hubris in the highest degree. If I get rid of this vehicle it will be for reasons along these lines and I have to confess I am considering it, I am very dissatisfied with the software in the controls. Ironically, it doesn't have to be that way.
Required nanny systems that don't work well (see cross traffic detection anywhere) aren't welcome and are for sheep or for the manufacturer's continuing development. They shouldn't be forced onto customers as is the current practice. Given Toyota's prowess in producing excellent vehicles, their continued expansion of owner unfriendly controls is shocking. I am also thinking there are buyers for an aftermarket interface given the clear deficiencies of the factory implementation. Toyota, are you listening?
Having owned my 25 premium for about six months and having put 15000 miles on it, I just completed a near-5000 mile journey over two weeks covering two thirds of the country on interstate highways and approximately 1500 miles of Idaho back country on forest roads or trails (thanks for having me Idaho, I miss my time as a resident). For me, this is what I wanted my LC to do. It performed very well. With the obvious lower mileage and high cargo floor which are hassles as are the non lay-flat seats and small tank, but whatever, I knew those were there when I purchased. On a not so unrelated note , I'm unsure of the real mileage because the tires used for this trip are oversized and there's no way to change the effective tire diameter.
Skipping the pleasures of sure-footed capability and how great a substitute overlanding is for backpacking, my biggest complaint is the embedded conclusion in the control system: Toyota feels IT knows what you "need" better than you. I didn't think it would be this bad. From map screens that change their own settings (including orientation) from what you've selected back to default orientation settings if you look at anything else to glitzy transitions with twirling graphics that take away your instrument display for long seconds while driving if you change driving modes, it is NOT THIS DRIVER'S CONTROL SYSTEM. The video-game like antics on display conflict with real-time driving tasks and far too often require the driver's eyes to complete sequences for common tasks- it's ok when you're parked in an urban setting but unacceptable in dynamic driving situations. If the camera WATCHING YOU is blocked, say with a Factor-55 sticker as a crazy example, you have 30 minutes before an endlessly recurring warning will come up repeating itself every 5 seconds. This warning must be cleared each time interaction with the instrument cluster is needed (yes! I'm pig-headed enough to have had the message displayed near full time for weeks.) The fact that the vehicle, purportedly built for overlanding can, among other things, can kill its own battery with non-running electrical current requirements and yet does not have a "single button low power mode" is indicative. Many TSS systems also cannot be turned off, including the driver monitoring system alluded to above (a particular hot button for me- ever wonder what the data being collected is or who gets access to what?). Additionally, of the items that can be defeated, too many of the settings are not retentive and return TO THE TOYOTA SELECTED DEFAULTS on power cycle. The idea that a single set of defaults can support a multi-use vehicle with tons of user variability is ludicrous and hubris in the highest degree. If I get rid of this vehicle it will be for reasons along these lines and I have to confess I am considering it, I am very dissatisfied with the software in the controls. Ironically, it doesn't have to be that way.
Required nanny systems that don't work well (see cross traffic detection anywhere) aren't welcome and are for sheep or for the manufacturer's continuing development. They shouldn't be forced onto customers as is the current practice. Given Toyota's prowess in producing excellent vehicles, their continued expansion of owner unfriendly controls is shocking. I am also thinking there are buyers for an aftermarket interface given the clear deficiencies of the factory implementation. Toyota, are you listening?
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- Jul 7, 2025
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- '25 LC 1958 || '25 Sequoia LTD TRD || '05 TJR || '24 Polaris Ranger 1000 Crew
This was the final nail in the coffin for my potential upgrade from my 1958. I still have to deal with the bike rack/sensor conflicts, front parking sensor obnoxiousness, and the 4LO nannies that creep up. But I don't have to deal with the cameras, the cross-traffic alert nonsense, or the driver monitor BS. I was pretty close to pulling that trigger until just now, not a moment too soon.
Sorry Dub- I've got mixed feelings about it and do like a lot of things about mine. That said you already heard my complaints and I repeat my rhetorical question to Toyota: Are you listening? There is clearly a market impact.
Fully agree, the group responsible for designing screens and software should be banned from the automotive industry (offspring must be banned too).
I love how it dings after i close the driver door when i get out. So i open the door again to see the message on the dash - which disappears before i can read it. (Probably says driver door is open) Genius.
And yes the transitions are infuriating, we're trying to f-ing drive you morons, not be distracted by cartoons (well most of us)
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Not sure I agree that some of those things canāt be defeated; Iād have to go sit in my car and tinker for an hour. I feel like I turned off the driver monitor system along the way somewhere, for example - it doesnāt beep at me anymore.
I do think the MMI has menus upon menus full of inscrutable acronyms that are not necessary to use - the screens are all fully electronic and configurable, they have flexibility and space to use normal language. A lot of peopleās frustration with lack of configurability might really be frustration with the ability to configure easily, which would be a legit gripe.
As goes the cross traffic alert. Yes, the price of having that is that we must listen to it beep almost every time we turn into a lane right behind a vehicle that just went by. Other than eliminating the feature completely, what would be the solution?
Iāve not experienced the vehicle returning settings to default values.
I do think the MMI is generally poorly organized and not easy to navigate or understand, and that there are certain settings that a reasonable driver would need to change while in motion, that require multiple menu selections and understanding of Toyota Code. The example I keep coming back to is defeating the proximity sensors when they become blocked by ice, which they do almost immediately in certain weather conditions. Thatās not the vehicleās best thing.
Also, changing the radio station while operating Apple CarPlay is frankly dangerous. Iāve tested it, and depending on where youāre starting from it can take as many as six taps on the screen before you are able to select a new station, then three or four more to get back to the CarPlay display. This to me is the biggest miss of all, because almost all of us do it and itās 100% likely to result in our eyes off of the road for as much as ten seconds while traveling at highway speed. My last two vehicles - a 2016 Tahoe and a 2013 5-series - both had programmable buttons on the screen that would change to a desired radio station in one tap. Itās not a secret.
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I share those same complaints Mopper. Theyāre why I say the J250 could never be suitable as any kind of bug-out vehicle (pardon the cringy jargon). I have come to strongly dislike the safety tech. I understand and appreciate it in theory (I have seen how my fellow road users drive and thinks itās probably best for the average driver), but itās not for me.
That being said, Iām pretty sure you can fully turn off the driver monitoring system. Itās been a while since I did it but I havenāt gotten alerts in months. EOD Guyās settings pdf file has it listed.
Edit: worth saving this pdf: Dash Menu/Settings items
That being said, Iām pretty sure you can fully turn off the driver monitoring system. Itās been a while since I did it but I havenāt gotten alerts in months. EOD Guyās settings pdf file has it listed.
Edit: worth saving this pdf: Dash Menu/Settings items
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Can you run in 4LO without all the warnings?
Oh, no. 4LO is apparently Toyota code for FILL THE DASH WITH ALERTS! Frustrating but I have learned to mostly ignore, which raises its own concernsā¦
I'll buy you lunch on my next trip to CO if you can do any sequence in the MMI, put some tape over the camera window at the top of the column, drive for 30+ minutes (using adaptive cruise or lane assist might speed it up?) and not see the warning....
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