V35A-FTS V6TT teardown by Dave (Dave's Auto Center)

[Sugarloafer80]

Why are we in America so concerned about tolerances when the same motor in the rest of the world ...via the manuals, does not show the same concerns??? I suspect we have been brainwashed......no offense remotely intended but the power of the message these 'organizations" circulate has that effect. The motor has been around a lot longer than 20Weight oil. The hybrid attached to it in an early Prius....the Turbo is newer. Point is , that motor used to run on 5W-30...........2.4L turbo inline-four (T24A-FTS) block was designed around 2010. The elephant in the room is HTHS and for the Toyota 0W-20 it is only 2.6, the minimum allowed for that weight. Those low HTHS oils die quickly. So you can change your oil every 5K because it basically sucks and craps out quick or use an oil with a ~3.0 HTHS that will that will survive just fine for a reasonable 7500 mile change interval....not arguing beyond the reasons that there is far too much data accumulating out there that does not support 20 weight (2.6HTHS) sheer oils....beyond a few like Mobil 1 Extended Performance at 2.9 along with Amsoil Signature.......they are basically thicker, tougher 0W-20s..........in the end, let's see how this all shakes out.....in search of the holy grail of mileage, we appear to have made a few missteps....

 

[Bad1975]

0W-20 was introduced in 2002.

I remember when the there were only SAE 30 and such and when the first multi-grade oil came around (maybe 10W-30) the same oil freaks proclaimed death to engines would ensue, it didn't. Then 5W-30 raised the alarm again and they really freaked out when 0W-30 was introduced.

I ran 0W-20 for 14 years and 150K now and have never had UOA come back with anything abnormal and I've went as far as 14K intervals and UOA said I could still push it out 2-3K more. Same thing happened when Volvo spec'd 0W-30 vs 5W/10W-30 all the enthusiasts claimed your engine would fail if your ran the 0W-30 in a turbo, but mine and others are still going strong.

I'm currently running Valvoline R/P in both the Tundra and Volvo and it has worked wonders on the Volvo at 180k miles it no longer burns oil and went from 17-21 MPG to 27-30 MPG in the first 500 miles after the change to VRP (Also changed spark plugs, coil packs and injectors shortly after the oil change as I saw the oil burning go away). Tundra is getting 19.5 MPG with a 6" lift and 35" tires @ 70MPH (same treatment as the Volvo) up from 15 MPG prior to.

I don't really care about the MPG in the end but it is a way to tell if something is going on if you get a slow steady decline of a couple MPGs without changes in habits. Either something internal is having an effect or components are aging enough to cause the decline without setting faults yet, it's another diagnostic tool for the attentive owner.

Food for though the higher viscosity oil most likely will stay in the turbo longer after engine shut down and have a great chance of getting burnt and leaving deposits in the turbo oil passage.

Run whatever your heart desires, hell put HD diesel oil in it and see what happens for all I care, just don't be surprised if something goes wrong and your not quite the engineer you thought you were.

The Toyota engineers must be conspiring against Toyota and specing an oil that will cause premature engine failure to put them out of business! Someone needs to tell them to raise the viscosity just high enough to just get the power train out of warranty before failure.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

They went to 20 weight in search of mileage........guess it isn't as important in Europe.
You are using P&R for an oil burner which is highly suggestive of wear/carbon buildup........but of course the 20 weight had nothing to do with that......I guess the turbos in Europe will all fail because they can run 30 weight oils.....and the Australian ones will fail in short order because they can run 15W-40. I would Not run diesel oil.........no zinc needs here.
You did read that oil chart from a European owners manual, didn't you. Notice how it is written differently.....

Read page 562 from an Australian LC of our vintage. Notice the 3 choices given.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Preferred is a different word than required or recommended

 

[Sugarloafer80]

Now read page 635 of a US manual. Nah, the US public hasn't been brainwashed by the EPA /CAFE......no way. We are all free thinkers. I still say this didn't help the V35 scenario either. Please read this stuff folks.......I can't make it up!!

 

[qberg]

Why are we in America so concerned about tolerances when the same motor in the rest of the world ...via the manuals, does not show the same concerns??? I suspect we have been brainwashed......no offense remotely intended but the power of the message these 'organizations" circulate has that effect. The motor has been around a lot longer than 20Weight oil. The hybrid attached to it in an early Prius....the Turbo is newer. Point is , that motor used to run on 5W-30...........2.4L turbo inline-four (T24A-FTS) block was designed around 2010. The elephant in the room is HTHS and for the Toyota 0W-20 it is only 2.6, the minimum allowed for that weight. Those low HTHS oils die quickly. So you can change your oil every 5K because it basically sucks and craps out quick or use an oil with a ~3.0 HTHS that will that will survive just fine for a reasonable 7500 mile change interval....not arguing beyond the reasons that there is far too much data accumulating out there that does not support 20 weight (2.6HTHS) sheer oils....beyond a few like Mobil 1 Extended Performance at 2.9 along with Amsoil Signature.......they are basically thicker, tougher 0W-20s..........in the end, let's see how this all shakes out.....in search of the holy grail of mileage, we appear to have made a few missteps....

The T24 engine first appeared in the MY22 NX350. I'm unaware of this block being a carryover from a previous product in any capacity. The AR engine dates back to around then, but is a completely different design.

As far as what the owner's manual says... they both have 0W-20 as the recommended oil. One manual is fed through the legalese of the US government and the other is through the legalese of the AUS government. It isn't the gotcha that you think it is. The engine was designed with 0W-20 in mind in both cases. A slight oil weight change isn't going to be the difference between an engine popping at 20k miles and surviving to 300k miles. If the fix was that easy, Toyota would have just changed the oil spec because, as of last year, CAFE fines don't exist anymore. Way easier to change a number on a window sticker and recommended oil than replacing a bunch of engines.

 

[GrayBeard]

Now read page 635 of a US manual. Nah, the US public hasn't been brainwashed by the EPA /CAFE......no way. We are all free thinkers. I still say this didn't help the V35 scenario either. Please read this stuff folks.......I can't make it up!!

The Australian manual is for a diesel. Does that make a difference?

The US manual does state (though not show in the graph) that 0w-30 is acceptable but should be changed at the next interval.

Does any of this discussion affect the change the filter 10K recommendation in other threads?

 

[D-mac]

The Australian manual is for a diesel. Does that make a difference?

The US manual does state (though not show in the graph) that 0w-30 is acceptable but should be changed at the next interval.

Does any of this discussion affect the change the filter 10K recommendation in other threads?

Maybe someone should start a new thread about what engine oil grade and change interval is best to put the issue to rest.

 

[Mopper]

I do not have the depth of knowledge of lubricants or automotive technology of many but... seems like there would be a study, or several, establishing the breakdown rate of 0-20 oil? Prevailing wisdom here and in the manual seem to put oil changes at 5,000 miles/6 months for Special Operating Conditions and 7,500-10,000 miles/1 year otherwise. Personally, I link a tire rotation into the maintenance ritual and have been doing 8K miles between changes/rotations on my 4Runner for decades and think I could do the same here with my LC. I need to add an immediate oil change following off-roading or towing, however. @Sugarloafer80 makes a pretty good argument but I'd still be changing whatever oil at the same frequency...so maybe in another 47K at warranty expiration? I'll definitely be watching this discussion...

 

[sweet5ltr]

I do not have the depth of knowledge of lubricants or automotive technology of many but... seems like there would be a study, or several, establishing the breakdown rate of 0-20 oil? Prevailing wisdom here and in the manual seem to put oil changes at 5,000 miles/6 months for Special Operating Conditions and 7,500-10,000 miles/1 year otherwise. Personally, I link a tire rotation into the maintenance ritual and have been doing 8K miles between changes/rotations on my 4Runner for decades and think I could do the same here with my LC. I need to add an immediate oil change following off-roading or towing, however. @Sugarloafer80 makes a pretty good argument but I'd still be changing whatever oil at the same frequency...so maybe in another 47K at warranty expiration? I'll definitely be watching this discussion...

4Runner didn't have a Turbo I4 producing 275-ish HP out of only 2.4L (or 144-cubic inches). This engine is far more stressed from just a general design standpoint, producing nearly 2HP/per CI (which would be like a supercharged SBC making 700 HP). An early-2000's 5.3 LS could also last 250,000 - 300,000 miles with minimal maintenance, but we are talking well over double the displacement producing 285HP. Once you add forced induction, the older maintenance habits with NA engines is out the window. I would absolutely follow the advice from everyone BUT Toyota, and change at 5,000-miles regardless if you're off-roading or not, at least until the warranty is over, then move to a 5W-30 or similar if you want a more extended maintenance interval.

It's really unfortunate that Toyota has ruined its reputation with the Tundra. I don't even know how they're legally being sold right now.

 

[RideWithYanu]

It's really unfortunate that Toyota has ruined its reputation with the Tundra. I don't even know how they're legally being sold right now.

Toyota’s failure rates are still some of the very best in the business. Their reputation remains sterling.

 

[D-mac]

Toyota’s failure rates are still some of the very best in the business. Their reputation remains sterling.

Somehow Toyota is still selling LC250s too after all of the transmission failures we’ve seen on this forum.

 

[DubDub]

Well, this thread fell down a rabbit hole on me .

The V6TT failure rate is still <1%, with short block replacement covered. I’d be interested if anyone could name a manufacturer not call Honda, with a better rate of failure right now. The Tundra name might have lost some faith, but the reputation is hardly ruined. Toyota is certainly not suffering from a catastrophic loss of confidence by consumers. Resale for Tundras and Sequoias was never Taco/4R elite to begin with.

The reason why it is talked about WRT Toyota is because people have come to expect <.2% instances of failure from Toyota. Ford, Stelanis, GM, Hyundai, Kia, Land Rover, VW, MB, BMW… NONE of them even come close to 1% rate. No, Toyota is fine and excelling.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

4Runner didn't have a Turbo I4 producing 275-ish HP out of only 2.4L (or 144-cubic inches). This engine is far more stressed from just a general design standpoint, producing nearly 2HP/per CI (which would be like a supercharged SBC making 700 HP). An early-2000's 5.3 LS could also last 250,000 - 300,000 miles with minimal maintenance, but we are talking well over double the displacement producing 285HP. Once you add forced induction, the older maintenance habits with NA engines is out the window. I would absolutely follow the advice from everyone BUT Toyota, and change at 5,000-miles regardless if you're off-roading or not, at least until the warranty is over, then move to a 5W-30 or similar if you want a more extended maintenance interval.

It's really unfortunate that Toyota has ruined its reputation with the Tundra. I don't even know how they're legally being sold right now.

All good I just didn't need to wait for 50K.....miles......the wear in the first 50K has a huge affect on the next 250K....

 

[Bad1975]

@Sugarloafer80 , different engines different requirements and recommendations.

You seem to have selective reading issues to support 0W-20 being an engine destroyer.

The Volvo which was the oil burner ran nothing but Volvo recommended 0W-30 it's entire life. Wear metals have been flawless over it's life. It's a Turbo 5 cylinder and has been tuned with double the factory boost since 3000 miles after new and it has over 180k on the clock. Of course there will be ring deposits and carbon build-up on the rings, UOA and the results of the VRP oil prove exactly that. The Tundra, doesn't and has never burned oil at 135K as of today and exclusively has had 0W-20 since new and it's UOA are flawless as well, not to mention it has towed a lot of miles in pretty harsh conditions and long distances.

You also breezed on by all the high mileage 1UR-FE and 3UR-FE engines running 0W-20 and suggested they all must be living an easy life as if the GX550 is abused hard by its owners. I'd venture to say Tundra and Sequoia owners in general push harder and demand more from the their vehicles than the average Lexus SUV owner.

The mileage reasoning is mute as well as 0W-20 vs 0W-30 doesn't have any significant statistical effect and wouldn't raise the manufacturers EPA estimate because of it so I'm at a loss for what you think they have to gain by spec'd 0W-20 instead of 0W-30?

 

[Bad1975]

Some light reading on the complexity of selecting the proper viscosity.

https://www.k1technologies.com/k1-blog/bearing-clearance-and-oil-viscosity-explained/

The short of the read here is the tighter the clearance the more abuse the engine can handle and the lower the viscosity must be. It also speaks to lower viscosity having advantages other than fuel economy.

Safe to say none hear have relevant expertise to go against any OEM engineered specification.

 

[wpage]

Deviation in oil choice whether 0 20 or 0 30. Likened to fuel choice of premium vs regular. Taking the recommended route or required. These paths can have a impact on performance and reliability.
Like many other things your choice may have long term consequences.

 

[ultane]

When are people going to just throw in the towel and start doing LS swaps??

I’ll show myself out now..

 

[Sugarloafer80]

@Sugarloafer80 , different engines different requirements and recommendations.

You seem to have selective reading issues to support 0W-20 being an engine destroyer.

The Volvo which was the oil burner ran nothing but Volvo recommended 0W-30 it's entire life. Wear metals have been flawless over it's life. It's a Turbo 5 cylinder and has been tuned with double the factory boost since 3000 miles after new and it has over 180k on the clock. Of course there will be ring deposits and carbon build-up on the rings, UOA and the results of the VRP oil prove exactly that. The Tundra, doesn't and has never burned oil at 135K as of today and exclusively has had 0W-20 since new and it's UOA are flawless as well, not to mention it has towed a lot of miles in pretty harsh conditions and long distances.

You also breezed on by all the high mileage 1UR-FE and 3UR-FE engines running 0W-20 and suggested they all must be living an easy life as if the GX550 is abused hard by its owners. I'd venture to say Tundra and Sequoia owners in general push harder and demand more from the their vehicles than the average Lexus SUV owner.

The mileage reasoning is mute as well as 0W-20 vs 0W-30 doesn't have any significant statistical effect and wouldn't raise the manufacturers EPA estimate because of it so I'm at a loss for what you think they have to gain by spec'd 0W-20 instead of 0W-30?

Absolutely not

When are people going to just throw in the towel and start doing LS swaps??

I’ll show myself out now..

Yea I here that L87 is very reliable....

 

[Sugarloafer80]

I am not supporting or cherry picking here. I am reading different manuals from around that world as suggested by a few sites to BROADEN my view. My view on this issue has changed as I have looked deeper into it. No doubt, Toyota has millions of vehicles successfully running 0W-20. BUT,,,,,,would we potentially agree that the pairing of the T24 in a Land cruiser is the most heavily taxed version of that motor to date? Does any Toyota vehicle as big or bigger than the LC use it? 4Runner is slightly smaller......

In reverse I must ask you Bad1975, do you think the tolerances for the European and Australian markets are lower, thus allowing a broader choice of oils???? If Toyota is so confident about 0W-20, why even mention the other oils in those manuals. Why not use the exact same dialogue as that found in the US manual. Again it is all about tolerances for you....are these other countries receiving motors with looser tolerances? I don't think so and my research has suggested same motors. Wpage made a statement that actually probably caries more weight than "weight", fuel and in this case, detergent levels........all inter related.

I will try to back away from this now. I did not want to hijack this thread, but unfortunately I did. Sorry. That engine teardown, contaminants aside, looked pretty damn clean IMHO. Maybe the oil used didn't hurt, I sure don't think it helped...bring it full circle, why did GM bump the weight up to 40wt on the L87? Answer: because it does help.....

My plan is to drop my 0W-20 in a few weeks, send it out . Will be ~7000-7500 miles so pretty well broken in. I will use 5W-30 and have that tested in good time. I will let the numbers tell me. Will it be MOG methodology? No. But an hour drain time gets us close enough for horseshoes.