Honest LC250 review that goes into more technical details & why Toyota missed the mark on LC250

[TakaraLC]

Numbers are accurate. There are several independent dyno tests for this engine on various platforms.

Non-hybrid version of this platform makes 267 horsepower in Tacoma. If you add the 50HP electric motor, it will easily make 297 peak HP. In fact, it makes higher power at the wheels compared to 5.7 V8 in LC200 due to exceptionally low drivetrain losses.

2024 Toyota Tacoma on the Dyno VS 3rd gen Tacoma on the Dyno

Pretty impressive numbers coming out of the 2024 Toyota Tacoma! This is the non-hybrid turbo four cylinder i-Force engine. This new engine is putting...

www.tacomaworld.com

Regarding 5.7 torque curve

I don’t understand this power curve. Does anyone know the sweet spot for the 5.7 v8 torque curve? Like what’s the rpm to shoot for for being in final gear (.59 in the 6 speed I think) on the highway?

forum.ih8mud.com

It doesn’t match GX in 0-60 because it is heavier and electric motor doesn’t stay engaged for the entire 0-60 run. It is also the same reason why LC has faster 30-50 and 50-70 times compared to GX. If Toyota wanted, they could have made LC faster by programming some type of launch control that keeps the electric motor at full power, but that is not something LC is about, so why bother.

 

[teghogh]

If someone believes 2+2=7. It’s easier to just say sure, we’ll agree to disagree and move on.

I’m providing empirical evidence of same class vehicles with similar weigh and same hp tq figures being much quicker . If 2+2=7 is your response then yes let’s move on

 

[teghogh]

Numbers are accurate. There are several independent dyno tests for this engine on various platforms.

Non-hybrid version of this platform makes 267 horsepower in Tacoma. If you add the 50HP electric motor, it will easily make 297 peak HP. In fact, it makes higher power at the wheels compared to 5.7 V8 in LC200 due to exceptionally low drivetrain losses.

2024 Toyota Tacoma on the Dyno VS 3rd gen Tacoma on the Dyno

Pretty impressive numbers coming out of the 2024 Toyota Tacoma! This is the non-hybrid turbo four cylinder i-Force engine. This new engine is putting...

www.tacomaworld.com

Regarding 5.7 torque curve

I don’t understand this power curve. Does anyone know the sweet spot for the 5.7 v8 torque curve? Like what’s the rpm to shoot for for being in final gear (.59 in the 6 speed I think) on the highway?

forum.ih8mud.com

It doesn’t match GX in 0-60 because it is heavier and electric motor doesn’t stay engaged for the entire 0-60 run. It is also the same reason why LC has faster 30-50 and 50-70 times compared to GX. If Toyota wanted, they could have made LC faster by programming some type of launch control that keeps the electric motor at full power, but that is not something LC is about, so why bother.

Gx is 1.5 seconds quicker to quarter mile with much higher trap speed of 96 vs 85

 

[TakaraLC]

Gx is 1.5 seconds quicker to quarter mile with much higher trap speed of 96 vs 85

Because LC is also 1.5seconds slower from 0-60, despite being faster 30-50 and 50-70. Electric motor simply doesn’t engage early on at full power.

In my opinion, faster 30-50 and 50-70 are more relevant compared to 1/4 mile times that have no real world meaning.

 

[teghogh]

Because LC is also 1.5seconds slower from 0-60, despite being faster 30-50 and 50-70. Electric motor simply doesn’t engage early on at full power.

In my opinion, faster 30-50 and 50-70 is more relevant compared to 1/4 mile times that has no real world meaning.

That’s not how trap speed works. If it was just the initial launch then the both would keep the same distance but being 10mph faster at quarter mile means that it keeps pulling away. I think there are other factors at play
1. The extra gears of the gx always keep it at the desired torque band
2. The gx final gear ratio might be lower

 

[Blue Sky]

That’s not how trap speed works. If it was just the initial launch then the both would keep the same distance but being 10mph faster at quarter mile means that it keeps pulling away. I think there are other factors at play
1. The extra gears of the gx always keep it at the desired torque band
2. The gx final gear ratio might be lower

It sounds like you really want that GX! That's awesome!
Why don't you just dump the frumpy LC and get that 550?

 

[Winchester44]

both trucks returned same mpg results on 75mph car and driver test .

Not surprising. Not optimized for 75mph.

 

[Winchester44]

"LC things" are durability, longevity and reliability. A naturally aspirated V8 does that well. There are several million mile 5.7's running around with original drivetrains. Why would it not be a good powertrain choice?

5.7 is a great motor but guzzles gas and diesel makes more torque at far lower rpm.

1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 Diesel-Torque: 650 Nm (479 lb-ft) @ 1,600 rpm

3UR-FE 5.7L V8 Petrol- Torque: 544 Nm (401 lb-ft) @ 3,600 rpm

 

[Winchester44]

this truck does not move nowhere near close to what those numbers suggests . When I first heard this engine has 330 and almost 500lb of torque I thought it would be very quick but then the 0-60 numbers tell another story. Someone needs to explain why Bronco v6, despite being on 35 inch tires and being down 60 tq and same hp values is 1.5 second quicker than the lc . If anything all the low end instantaneous torque should help the lc move quicker off the line but this isn’t the case and inline with 4 cyl badlands with 300hp and 300 tq .

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41937201/2022-ford-bronco-badlands-sasquatch-reliability-maintenance/

If you’re measuring the Land Cruiser 250 by 0–60 times, you’re missing the point. Toyota deliberately prioritized durability, capability, and long-term reliability over flash and speed. It’s not slow because Toyota couldn’t make it faster—it’s slow because Toyota chose to tune it for low-end grunt, off-road control, and mechanical dependability. The hybrid system delivers torque where it matters most: in rough terrain, towing situations, and everyday driving—not on spec sheets.


Now contrast that with the Ford Bronco, which might be quicker on paper in some trims but is plagued by a growing reputation for poor reliability, frequent quality control issues, and recalls. Owners report trouble with everything from electronics to engine components—none of which inspires confidence on a remote trail or long-term ownership.


The Land Cruiser, by comparison, may not be flashy, but it’s backed by decades of proven Toyota engineering. It’s built to start every time, crawl over anything, and still run strong 250,000 miles later. That’s why serious, expedition drivers, miltaries and global fleets choose Land Cruisers—not because they’re fast, but because they’re flawless under pressure and nearly bulletproof when maintained.

If you want quick acceleration, buy a sports car. If you want something you can trust every day, everywhere, the Land Cruiser is still the benchmark—Bronco included.

 

[Winchester44]

If these numbers aren’t fooling us then someone needs to explain how the Lexus gx with very much identical hp tq figures obliterates the lc in 0-60 and quarter mile . 1.5 seconds quicker and 10mph faster quarter miles are results of 150hp tq difference not 10

Because Toyota wanted the Lexus to prioritize
on-road performance, while the Land Cruiser prioritizes off-road and low-end torque. The GX uses a 10-speed transmission with tighter gear ratios and quicker acceleration, whereas the Land Cruiser has an 8-speed with gearing tuned for low speed control. The GX also avoids the added weight of the Land Cruiser’s hybrid system and runs on lighter, less aggressive tires. I suspect sportier throttle mapping too.
In short, different design priorities.

 

[Truckee]

Dont let nostalgia fool you, this power curve for the I-Force Max 2.4 (Standard and hybrid) is why we no longer use large displacement engines. It is far superior in power, torque, weight, fuel efficiency, and stressload to traditional V-8s which look like a standard bell curve skewed to the right.

Notice on the hybrid how the torque is front loaded and peaks at 1800 rpms which gives it immediate power delivery and takes the burden off the 4 cylinder engine. Thus, in time, we can expect the powerplant to actually last longer than big block alternatives that always have to work a lot harder.

In the past, the industry reluctantly used hybrids to meet fuel economy and emissions standards. Toyota has figured out the combination of a low revving engine plus an electric motor booster is simply a better way to go all around. In our case, about 136 HP per litre (326/2.4) vs about 67 HP for the Tundra V8 (381 HP/5.7 L).



View attachment 42751

Toyota's I-Force Powertrain Leaves A Lot Of Power On The Table, As Recent Dyno Tests Revealed An Unexpected Surprise

If you have a Toyota SUV or pickup truck powered by the 2.4-liter i-Force engine, you will be pleasantly surprised.

www.torquenews.com

Don't let a single pull dyno fool you either. The Tacoma 2.4 and 2.4 hybrid make for nearly identical 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times and trap speeds. The 5.7 LC200, making "less power," weighing 1k more lbs and more drivetrain losses (due to full time 4wd) is also bettering the Tacoma Hybrid. I'm not saying 0-60 and 1/4 miles times are the most important factors but they are a measure of performance.

Generally, a higher hp per liter is a more "stressed" motor and than lower hp per liter. Toyota had to really beef up the cooling system to deal with the added heat and stress. Yes, the electric motor helps but the electric motor does not come into play when towing up for hours on a long mountain grade.

In a million miles, the Hybrid will have replaced the turbo 2-4 times, the hybrid battery 3 times, the electric motor 1+ times, and spark plug intervals will be 3x as much as the V8.

 

[Truckee]

It doesn’t match GX in 0-60 because it is heavier and electric motor doesn’t stay engaged for the entire 0-60 run. It is also the same reason why LC has faster 30-50 and 50-70 times compared to GX.

You keep saying that. I'd like to see a 50-70mph pull, GX vs LC.

 

[TakaraLC]

You keep saying that. I'd like to see a 50-70mph pull, GX vs LC.

Car and driver review has these.

 

[teghogh]

Again outside the buggy feeling of the engine I don’t have an issue with the power it produces for this application , however :
1. If the hybrid is tuned to deliver on power then why are all 4cyl hybrid force variant in 4Runner , Tacoma, lc are significantly slower than the non hybrid gx by all accounts

2. If the hybrid is supposed to be helping with gas mileage then why are the mpg gains so small compared to non hybrid variants
In my opinion the hybrid setup would have been more appreciated if it actually delivered on what hybrids are supposed to do , and that is to provide significant gains on fuel savings . I could then make sense out of all the other flaws as I would with a diesel engine , that despite the harshness , and less than ideal 10sec 0-60 times of diesel engines they actually deliver significant mpg and range gains where as according to Toyota this setup is tuned for power and yet feels nowhere near the reported peak hp, tq values .
Again just to put things in perspective Bronco badlands 4cyl non hybrid with 300 horse and 300 tq ( 180 lb ft lower than lc) provides similar acceleration as the lc while being on 35 inch tires

 

[EOD Guy]

Here's a thought.......... gear ratios.

 

[teghogh]

Here's a thought.......... gear ratios.

Here is the final ratios after being multiplied by the rear ratio . The first gears are identical but everything else is about 10 percent lower on gx which gives it 10 percent bump on torque delivered to the wheels

 

[teghogh]

Here is the final ratios after being multiplied by the rear ratio . The first gears are identical but everything else is about 10 percent lower on gx which gives it 10 percent bump on torque delivered to the wheels

Percent difference per gear .
The other missing point is dyno results of the gx engine. I bet that the area under the tq curve is much flatter that what was posted here for iforce engine.

 

[Truckee]

Car and driver review has these.

"At the track, the Land Cruiser's 7.7-second romp to 60 mph is neither impressive nor disappointing, but it does trail the more powerful GX550 Overtrail+'s 6.3-second effort. During passing maneuvers, however, the Land Cruiser is a tenth ahead from 30 to 50 mph and only a tenth behind from 50 to 70 mph because the instant-on nature of the hybrid system gets it going immediately, while the GX550's 10-speed automatic sorts itself and kicks down."

Ok, found the quote. a tenth of a second either way is not really substantial. But if I was overtaking a slow vehicle on a 2-lane road, I'd certainly be in the "correct" gear or at least shifting to sport mode before attempting it.

 

[Truckee]

5.7 is a great motor but guzzles gas and diesel makes more torque at far lower rpm.

1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 Diesel-Torque: 650 Nm (479 lb-ft) @ 1,600 rpm

3UR-FE 5.7L V8 Petrol- Torque: 544 Nm (401 lb-ft) @ 3,600 rpm

First, you said the 5.7 was not a good choice. Now, you say it is a great motor. I do admire the 1VD and would like one, one day. Perhaps the best LC motor of all time. But it has a higher cost, higher repair and maintenance cost, plus you have to deal with DEF.

 

[EOD Guy]

Makes no difference to me, my point was bigger/smaller tires, higher/lower gear ratios = an increase or decrease in wheel speed and an increase or decrease in MPG, depending on the setup.