"forced" into buying a 4R "limited" instead of a LC?

[drjimmy]

Hello all, I have been reading a lot on here for the last month or so, so much information, thank you so much!

I apologize in advance for such a long first post.

I never owned a body on frame 4x4 before, never had the finances to allow it! Always drove FWD (like a few generations Rav4 and Matrix). Always been my dream to own a 4Runner. I am now in a position to acquire one, I am so excited.

I love the LC and had decided to go with a Land Cruiser non premium (don’t care for the options and prefer to get 18” wheels) instead of a 4Runner mostly based on looks and figured it was the most capable off road of the two (not interested in the part time 4wd 4runner models).

All of that until, at the last minute, I noticed the 1100 payload on the LC… Once I, my wife and two sons are inside, we pretty much take 800 pounds out of that, left with 300… I was hoping to put rock sliders (probably a 50 pounds differential once the original rails are removed I suppose). I would love to carry more than a few boxes of pop tarts on our adventurous road trips!!!!

Therefore, I decided to look further in the 4Runner, automatically excluding any of the hybrids with smaller pay loads (wow the Trailhunter around 850 pounds!). I really wanted the all-time 4WD because I live in Montreal/Quebec and we get a lot of snow. That leaves me with only the non-hybrid “limited” (in Canada, the limited does not come as a hybrid anyway). It seems the payload is 1400 pounds for that model, a gain of 300 pounds over the LC, not bad.

Once sale taxes are factored in where I live, the “limited” option is 10000$ cheaper for me (Canadian $) however, that is not so much a deciding factor as I was OK with the LC price. You could also argue that you could compare it to the “premium” package since you get real leather and some other upgrades (cannot believe that Toyota does not give the driver’s seat memory settings on a 80000+$ vehicle like the non premium LC).

On to the questions:

To get it more “up to specs” towards the LC (kind of trying to make the Ltd a little more off road capable), I would want to add complete skid plates and rock sliders (TRD front 26pounds, Transmission 12pounds, Transfer case (??50 pounds??), rock sliders 77 pounds = approx. 165 pounds?), so I would be left with about 435 pounds of payload. Does that sound about right?

My #1 reason for getting one of those is the winter driving (hence me wanting the full time 4WD). I have done as much research as I can on the different systems and I have reached where practical knowledge would really help me here. Trying to determine what exactly I am “leaving behind” as far as snow driving going from LC to 4runner Limited.
Considering the following details to try to compare them as closely as possible:

-Both would be equipped with high quality winter tires (mandatory in Quebec, thinking going with the Continental IceContact xtrm) on 18” wheels).

-I would remove that plastic air dam on the 4 runner to enhance ground clearance and approach angle

-4runner would be equipped with skid plates to protect underside against blocks of ice


Here is what I understood from my research, I would appreciate if someone could confirm I understood correctly.


Driving in mild to moderate snow:

I would presume both the 4R ltd and the LC would be “identical” here as they would both be in the regular 4WD mode and whatever regular traction aid is program would kick in as needed.


Driving in heavy snow:

Once I feel the 4R is losing grip, I would switch to 4HiL, center diff would be locked automatically and Atrac would kick in to assist in enhancing traction. With the LC, I could simply go MTS, select “heavy snow” and continue, I could decide to lock center diff if I wanted to or not. I understood that MTS is a more advanced version of Atrac, so I guess and edge for the LC.


Arriving at work and having to park on the side street: I do not have the luxury of a supplied parking spot at work. The side streets in Montreal are INSANE and often are not cleared for 6-7 days, we are talking several inches of snow that will also harden, multiple plow passing, etc. I understand these vehicles are not tanks and there are limitations, but surely it will be better than what I have right now. To get “in” with momentum, it is usually feasible and relatively easy, getting out is the tricky aspect:

With the 4R, I could put it in 4LoL and Atrac will assist (center diff is locked, so harder maneuverability). With the LC, I could put it in 4Lo, potentially try Crawl Control (even if there is no dedicated snow mode on that, but I suppose I would put it in “auto”). I would also have the extra “bonus” of being able to use 4Lo without locking the center differential and have more maneuverability (getting out of the snow banks rarely involves driving straight), alternatively, I could lock both center and rear, not sure if the front bar disconnect would ever be needed in this situation. I guess another win for the LC here.


1. Do I understand the theory behind the two systems properly?



2. In real world usage, would I see a drastic difference between the LC and the 4R ltd for my winter needs? Or we are splitting atoms on the theoretical level here?



3. Am I being worried way too much about maximum payload considering only 3-4 weeks of the year we will be out on vacation / road trip where it could be an issue? Rest of the time, it will be me alone driving around.


I apologize once more for the long post and appreciate any help or feed-back.

Thank you so much for your help.

Martin

I never thought I would say this but you should look at the Land Rover Defender 110 or 130. I’ve been in nearly the exact same situation. My rural ON town gets 150”+ snow a year, so fulltime 4WD is a must have, but I also want a low range. We are a family of four and do longer road trips and camping so I also need decent cargo area, payload and towing.

I was debating between LC and 4Runner Limited like you but have found the back seats in the 4Runner to be too cramped for us. The kids are fine to sit back there but getting them in and out is a pain and adults are not comfortable. The ride quality is also concerning.

So the LC. It rides much better than the 4Runner and has more rear seat leg room. BUT - it has that tiny fuel tank and I am one of those people who want a bit more refinement when I am spending over 70k CAD (or 88k for the Premium trim) in terms of powertrain.

I’ve landed on the Land Rover Defender 110. I know. Reliability. But from everything I’ve read they’ve made major improvements.

Cargo area is smaller than LC but it also has a digital rear view mirror so it’s easy to pack to the ceiling. Rear passenger space is abundant so you can use the middle seat for extra stuff and the floor is flat so we can put stuff there too.

It rides better than a body on frame vehicle on the highway, but has similar off road capabilities and superior traction in snow with auto center and rear lockers. The rear locker is effectively an LSD unit that can fully lock when needed. Land Rover terrain response is legendary and quicker to act than ATRAC.

Then there’s the payload. 1800lbs. Towing is 8000lbs. And for just a bit more than the LC Premium you get air suspension, a smooth straight six engine plus all the off road tech as well as luxury stuff.

I never thought I would be looking at Land Rover but the sad fact is that Toyota has priced themselves into luxury territory without providing a luxury experience, and more importantly across multiple trims of 4Runner, LC and GX there are serious compromises in packaging, options, payload, fuel range and refinement.

 

[D-mac]

I never thought I would say this but you should look at the Land Rover Defender 110 or 130. I’ve been in nearly the exact same situation. My rural ON town gets 150”+ snow a year, so fulltime 4WD is a must have, but I also want a low range. We are a family of four and do longer road trips and camping so I also need d

Many professional reviewers have commented that the current generation Nissan Armada/Y63 Patrol has LC300 level luxury/refinement, air suspension, V6 powertrain, and passenger space at a LC250 price. Plus, it has Japanese build quality and sanity in the ownership experience.

 

[Nuke]

Many professional reviewers have commented that the current generation Nissan Armada/Y63 Patrol has LC300 level luxury/refinement, V6 powertrain, and passenger space at a LC250 price. Plus has Japanese build and sanity in the ownership experience.

Agree re the Armada...

 

[drjimmy]

Many professional reviewers have commented that the current generation Nissan Armada/Y63 Patrol has LC300 level luxury/refinement, air suspension, V6 powertrain, and passenger space at a LC250 price. Plus, it has Japanese build quality and sanity in the ownership experience.

Great point - I did look at the Armada as well, its a whole size class above the LC as you noted. It's just a tad too big for me personally. But Toyota is definitely starting to take risks with their trims, prices and packaging. The Armada is a much better buy than the Land Cruiser in my opinion.

 

[RideWithYanu]

Great point - I did look at the Armada as well, its a whole size class above the LC as you noted. It's just a tad too big for me personally. But Toyota is definitely starting to take risks with their trims, prices and packaging. The Armada is a much better buy than the Land Cruiser in my opinion.

Record-breaking sales numbers would indicate their pricing risk-taking was a safe bet.

 

[Impatient]

Also gx premium here in the us is the same price as the lc non premium. It comes with 50% higher payload , 50% higher towing capabilities. 7 seats, and a huge cargo space

If you can find one and you aren’t worried about the engine. And of course, if you are ever offroad these two models aren’t comparable as even the most basic LC has better offroad features than all but the GX Overtrail.

There are so many different trims for these models that you really need to be specific. I see a lot of lazy price comps with GX models that don’t have nearly the offroad functionality as the base LC.

 

[ultane]

I never thought I would say this but you should look at the Land Rover Defender 110 or 130. I’ve been in nearly the exact same situation. My rural ON town gets 150”+ snow a year, so fulltime 4WD is a must have, but I also want a low range. We are a family of four and do longer road trips and camping so I also need decent cargo area, payload and towing.

I was debating between LC and 4Runner Limited like you but have found the back seats in the 4Runner to be too cramped for us. The kids are fine to sit back there but getting them in and out is a pain and adults are not comfortable. The ride quality is also concerning.

So the LC. It rides much better than the 4Runner and has more rear seat leg room. BUT - it has that tiny fuel tank and I am one of those people who want a bit more refinement when I am spending over 70k CAD (or 88k for the Premium trim) in terms of powertrain.

I’ve landed on the Land Rover Defender 110. I know. Reliability. But from everything I’ve read they’ve made major improvements.

Cargo area is smaller than LC but it also has a digital rear view mirror so it’s easy to pack to the ceiling. Rear passenger space is abundant so you can use the middle seat for extra stuff and the floor is flat so we can put stuff there too.

It rides better than a body on frame vehicle on the highway, but has similar off road capabilities and superior traction in snow with auto center and rear lockers. The rear locker is effectively an LSD unit that can fully lock when needed. Land Rover terrain response is legendary and quicker to act than ATRAC.

Then there’s the payload. 1800lbs. Towing is 8000lbs. And for just a bit more than the LC Premium you get air suspension, a smooth straight six engine plus all the off road tech as well as luxury stuff.

I never thought I would be looking at Land Rover but the sad fact is that Toyota has priced themselves into luxury territory without providing a luxury experience, and more importantly across multiple trims of 4Runner, LC and GX there are serious compromises in packaging, options, payload, fuel range and refinement.

Welcome to the asylum.

I’m not sure why you came to a Land Cruiser forum, to tell us about your Defender..

Good luck with your choice.

 

[Truckee]

If you can find one and you aren’t worried about the engine. And of course, if you are ever offroad these two models aren’t comparable as even the most basic LC has better offroad features than all but the GX Overtrail.

There are so many different trims for these models that you really need to be specific. I see a lot of lazy price comps with GX models that don’t have nearly the offroad functionality as the base LC.

For more serious off-road, I would actually take the most basic GX550 over the highest decorated LC250. What's your reasons?

 

[Holy Steve]

I never thought I would say this but you should look at the Land Rover Defender 110 or 130. I’ve been in nearly the exact same situation. My rural ON town gets 150”+ snow a year, so fulltime 4WD is a must have, but I also want a low range. We are a family of four and do longer road trips and camping so I also need decent cargo area, payload and towing.

I was debating between LC and 4Runner Limited like you but have found the back seats in the 4Runner to be too cramped for us. The kids are fine to sit back there but getting them in and out is a pain and adults are not comfortable. The ride quality is also concerning.

So the LC. It rides much better than the 4Runner and has more rear seat leg room. BUT - it has that tiny fuel tank and I am one of those people who want a bit more refinement when I am spending over 70k CAD (or 88k for the Premium trim) in terms of powertrain.

I’ve landed on the Land Rover Defender 110. I know. Reliability. But from everything I’ve read they’ve made major improvements.

Cargo area is smaller than LC but it also has a digital rear view mirror so it’s easy to pack to the ceiling. Rear passenger space is abundant so you can use the middle seat for extra stuff and the floor is flat so we can put stuff there too.

It rides better than a body on frame vehicle on the highway, but has similar off road capabilities and superior traction in snow with auto center and rear lockers. The rear locker is effectively an LSD unit that can fully lock when needed. Land Rover terrain response is legendary and quicker to act than ATRAC.

Then there’s the payload. 1800lbs. Towing is 8000lbs. And for just a bit more than the LC Premium you get air suspension, a smooth straight six engine plus all the off road tech as well as luxury stuff.

I never thought I would be looking at Land Rover but the sad fact is that Toyota has priced themselves into luxury territory without providing a luxury experience, and more importantly across multiple trims of 4Runner, LC and GX there are serious compromises in packaging, options, payload, fuel range and refinement.

I get where you’re coming from, and you’re not wrong on the spec sheet side of things — the Defender is objectively strong on payload, towing, and refinement for the money. For a family of four doing long trips in heavy snow, it checks a lot of boxes Toyota oddly leaves on the table right now.
That said, I think this really comes down to risk tolerance and ownership horizon. A lot of us here are less concerned with initial capability and more focused on how the vehicle behaves at year 8–12, 150–250k km, in harsh climates, with minimal drama. That’s where Toyota still earns its reputation, even if the LC250 is compromised in areas like payload, fuel range, and interior tech for the price.
On the winter traction side specifically, I don’t think Martin is giving the 4Runner Limited enough credit. Full-time 4WD + ATRAC + good winter tires already puts it in a very high tier for snow and urban winter mess, even without Crawl or MTS. In real-world Montreal conditions, tires, ground clearance, and driver inputs matter more than whether the traction system reacts 0.2 seconds faster.
Payload anxiety is understandable, but I also agree it’s being somewhat over-weighted here. For 90% of the year, it won’t matter — and for those few heavy trips, careful packing and suspension upgrades can go a long way.
The Defender is compelling, no doubt. But for people who value long-term durability, simpler systems, and predictable ownership, the LC or 4R still make sense — even if Toyota has made the decision harder than it should be.

 

[Impatient]

For more serious off-road, I would actually take the most basic GX550 over the highest decorated LC250. What's your reasons?

20 inch wheels, no rear locker, worse approach angle, no front skid, why don’t you tell me where you think it’s better?

 

[RideWithYanu]

20 inch wheels, no rear locker, worse approach angle, no front skid, why don’t you tell me where you think it’s better?

That approach angle on the GX is abysmal.

 

[Skidaddl]

I get where you’re coming from, and you’re not wrong on the spec sheet side of things — the Defender is objectively strong on payload, towing, and refinement for the money. For a family of four doing long trips in heavy snow, it checks a lot of boxes Toyota oddly leaves on the table right now.
That said, I think this really comes down to risk tolerance and ownership horizon. A lot of us here are less concerned with initial capability and more focused on how the vehicle behaves at year 8–12, 150–250k km, in harsh climates, with minimal drama. That’s where Toyota still earns its reputation, even if the LC250 is compromised in areas like payload, fuel range, and interior tech for the price.
On the winter traction side specifically, I don’t think Martin is giving the 4Runner Limited enough credit. Full-time 4WD + ATRAC + good winter tires already puts it in a very high tier for snow and urban winter mess, even without Crawl or MTS. In real-world Montreal conditions, tires, ground clearance, and driver inputs matter more than whether the traction system reacts 0.2 seconds faster.
Payload anxiety is understandable, but I also agree it’s being somewhat over-weighted here. For 90% of the year, it won’t matter — and for those few heavy trips, careful packing and suspension upgrades can go a long way.
The Defender is compelling, no doubt. But for people who value long-term durability, simpler systems, and predictable ownership, the LC or 4R still make sense — even if Toyota has made the decision harder than it should be.

Totally agree. You either appreciate the all-steak-modest-sizzle value proposition of Toyota, or you don't. I do. Plus, I'm not a soccer mom.

 

[Truckee]

20 inch wheels, no rear locker, worse approach angle, no front skid, why don’t you tell me where you think it’s better?

For more serious off-road, one wouldn't use the stock front bumper, nor the stock/TRD front skid plates. They would likely regear due to the much larger tires and so putting in a front and rear locker is no big deal at that time. Pretty much, most of what you mentioned doesn't really matter. The GX front/center/rear differentials are more stout. The gearing is lower. The transmission is better.

 

[Impatient]

For more serious off-road, one wouldn't use the stock front bumper, nor the stock/TRD front skid plates. They would likely regear due to the much larger tires and so putting in a front and rear locker is no big deal at that time. Pretty much, most of what you mentioned doesn't really matter. The GX front/center/rear differentials are more stout. The gearing is lower. The transmission is better.

Oh now we’re making modifications?

 

[Truckee]

"For more serious off-road" usually entails some modifications. Certainly, the sky's the limit on modifications but I'm talking pretty standard, run of the mill modifications.

Let me ask you this, do most serious off-roaders have a stock front bumper?

 

[DubDub]

"For more serious off-road" usually entails some modifications. Certainly, the sky's the limit on modifications but I'm talking pretty standard, run of the mill modifications.

Let me ask you this, do most serious off-roaders have a stock front bumper?

I’ve never once, ever, had an aftermarket bumper on any vehicle I’ve ever owned. My TJ has experienced environments 99.9% of these LCs ever will… so yes, some serious off roaders do not prioritize the front bumper for modification. I am not “seriously”’off-roading my LC, but a bumper would not be in the first $10k spent if I were.

This comes across less humble than I wish it did. I am not trying to be contrary.

 

[Truckee]

I am not “seriously”’off-roading my LC, but a bumper would not be in the first $10k spent if I were.

You just excluded yourself.

The premise is "more serious off-road." You said some serious off-roaders don't prioritize the front bumper. Does that also means the majority of serious off-roaders prioritize a front bumper? Also, the TJ by design has better approach angles than an LC250.... by a large margin.

 

[DubDub]

You just excluded yourself.

The premise is "more serious off-road." You said some serious off-roaders don't prioritize the front bumper. Does that also means the majority of serious off-roaders prioritize a front bumper? Also, the TJ by design has better approach angles than an LC250.... by a large margin.

I was presenting at least a singular instance of someone who doesn’t. I provided a qualifying statement in addition to the “excluding” statement you chose to quote. I wasn’t trying to support either stance, just expressing that some do not. And again, my intent was to show a data point, not be snarky.

My TJ is on 4”/35s with skids and armor. The bumper is still a beat to crap stock bumper. My 2015 Taco Pro was on a 4/3 w/ 285s and skids, no-crap beadlocks… factory bumpers. Both of those vehicles have seen more serious offroad than 90% of people will see.

It isn’t mutually exclusive, these two statements can both be true without “exclusion”: 1) I have no intent to seriously offroad my LC, but 2) I am a serious offroader and would not prioritize bumpers. Rationale: weight, plain and simple. Winches are cool, friends with recovery points are way cooler.

 

[74cruzah]

Many professional reviewers have commented that the current generation Nissan Armada/Y63 Patrol has LC300 level luxury/refinement, air suspension, V6 powertrain, and passenger space at a LC250 price. Plus, it has Japanese build quality and sanity in the ownership experience.

They lost me at air suspension

 

[Truckee]

I was presenting at least a singular instance of someone who doesn’t. I provided a qualifying statement in addition to the “excluding” statement you chose to quote. I wasn’t trying to support either stance, just expressing that some do not. And again, my intent was to show a data point, not be snarky.

My TJ is on 4”/35s with skids and armor. The bumper is still a beat to crap stock bumper. My 2015 Taco Pro was on a 4/3 w/ 285s and skids, no-crap beadlocks… factory bumpers. Both of those vehicles have seen more serious offroad than 90% of people will see.

It isn’t mutually exclusive, these two statements can both be true without “exclusion”: 1) I have no intent to seriously offroad my LC, but 2) I am a serious offroader and would not prioritize bumpers. Rationale: weight, plain and simple. Winches are cool, friends with recovery points are way cooler.

I said most do. You said some don't. That's fine and true. There's obviously different types of off-road. I live 30 minutes from the nearest trail (7/10, lots of rocks). Most Toyotas around here either have aftermarket front bumpers or they will buy one in the near future after their plastic bumper rips off. Doesn't need to be heavy. Tube bumpers with recovery points are popular too.