The Unexpected Risk of an Early Break-In Oil Change

[ultane]

I've been thinking entirely along these lines. I was considering accepting a 125k mile Toyota warranty - but there is the point you raise about denial because of the oil incident, and there is likelihood it will fail outside the warranty period but still sooner than expected. Those are likely both problems way down the road, and there would zero recourse on my end. Essentially I would be accepting all risk and liability for their mistake.

I agree the trade-in option is probably easiest and best for them. I also wonder if the title ends up branded if I force a buyback. They do have an LCLC on the lot I'd be willing to trade for, though I would miss my round headlights and cloth seats.

Part of the annoyance here is part of why I bought the truck I did with 6 miles (2 of which I added on my test drive) is knowing I was buying a truck that was broken in properly to better ensure longevity. My plan was to keep this one a long time, and maybe even give it to my kid when he gets his license (he is currently 7). My efforts picking the right truck and meticulously breaking it in were entirely offset and compromised through no fault of my own.

GET. RID. OF. IT.

 

[TakaraLC]

Thanks! I always try to be realistic and reasonable. I'm definitely not looking for blood, calling for anyone's head, or to exploit their mistake for my own personal gain. Mistakes do indeed happen, and I think it will say a lot more about their dealership when we see how they resolve theirs.

My main concern is I want to make sure I have a truck I can rely on, one of many reasons I bought a Land Cruiser instead of a Land Rover. Obviously factory defects happen and nothing can ever be 100% reliable, but it's an uneasy feeling knowing for sure your engine has been compromised. I can't ever unhear the sound it was making. After finding a few examples on Youtube, it sounded exactly like knocking.

I totally understand and agree. Ultimately, if this is going to make you not enjoy the vehicle, and instead worry about it, asking for the possibility of a trade in is reasonable. Ultimately it is a mistake, but mistakes like this should not happen. A simple secondary dipstick inspection by the area manager would have prevented this issue.

What I am trying to say is be careful how you deliver your requests to the dealership. For something like this, willingness to work with them would probably be more useful than threatening to sue. I would ask them what kind of a trade in value they would give if you were to trade it in.

 

[cvx5832LC]

A like-for-like trade would be my first option to take if it's available to you. That mental baggage will eat away at your enjoyment and trust of the vehicle, if it hasn't already.

As you and other have pointed out, keep it civil, and stay open to what they offer. The ultimate solution may be something the collective hasn't even thought of.

 

[Phillyfisher]

I've been thinking entirely along these lines. I was considering accepting a 125k mile Toyota warranty - but there is the point you raise about denial because of the oil incident, and there is likelihood it will fail outside the warranty period but still sooner than expected. Those are likely both problems way down the road, and there would zero recourse on my end. Essentially I would be accepting all risk and liability for their mistake.

I agree the trade-in option is probably easiest and best for them. I also wonder if the title ends up branded if I force a buyback. They do have an LCLC on the lot I'd be willing to trade for, though I would miss my round headlights and cloth seats.

Part of the annoyance here is part of why I bought the truck I did with 6 miles (2 of which I added on my test drive) is knowing I was buying a truck that was broken in properly to better ensure longevity. My plan was to keep this one a long time, and maybe even give it to my kid when he gets his license (he is currently 7). My efforts picking the right truck and meticulously breaking it in were entirely offset and compromised through no fault of my own.

There is a value for this- I’d express that to Toyota corporate. “I wanted something to pass down to my son- and now I can’t do that.”

 

[mrCharlie]

This saga has a happy ending!

I brought the truck in to check the oil, as requested. The drain plug was clean, the oil looked new. They had no issue providing me a sample as requested. They felt it looked good, and offered a credit for future service - but I expressed I still had concerns for longevity. The service manager asked what I felt would solve the issue, and I brought up the idea of trading my truck for another.

The GM was on board, no convincing or arguments needed. They offered the full amount I paid for the old truck without asking, and they were happy to find a truck elsewhere or work with me on the black premium they had on the lot. I wasn't excited about black, but the brown interior won me over. They offered the same amount off on the premium that I got on the 1958 without me even asking, and offered a hugely discounted 10yr/100k extended warranty.

As I specifically told the GM - mistakes happen, but how those mistakes are fixed is what actually shows what an organization is made of. It means a lot more to say the dealership made a mistake and then made things right. I felt these guys were 100% honest the entire time, never any attempt to deny responsibility, and never any pressure for me to just deal with it. It's a smaller-town dealer, and they said specifically they want to be sure customers are happy, tell their friends, and keep coming back. I absolutely believe it - and I will definitely give them another shot whenever I need dealer service. I suspect they have implemented some procedural changes to ensure mistakes like my oil incident don't happen again.

Side note: The 1958 was the cooler of the two, and I will miss it. I loved the round headlights and cloth interior. So cozy and timeless. The LCLC Premium though is a nicer truck, and I'll probably be happier with it in the long run. I love the brown interior, and the stereo sounds excellent by comparison. The camera seems nice too - I was fine without the 360 on the 1958 because of the great visibility, but the backup camera was pretty bad. Unfortunately my new truck does lack the SBD, and it does have 20 inch wheels. I'm not super excited about the wheels, but it does feel like it handles a little sharper. Overall, very happy with the outcome of this entire story.

 

[cvx5832LC]

Win!!! That was a good trade and a great outcome. Not everyone will be that lucky!

 

[Bad1975]

You could ask dealer for wheel/ tire swap and headlight swap.

Good to hear they did right by you.

 

[EOD Guy]

This saga has a happy ending!

I brought the truck in to check the oil, as requested. The drain plug was clean, the oil looked new. They had no issue providing me a sample as requested. They felt it looked good, and offered a credit for future service - but I expressed I still had concerns for longevity. The service manager asked what I felt would solve the issue, and I brought up the idea of trading my truck for another.

The GM was on board, no convincing or arguments needed. They offered the full amount I paid for the old truck without asking, and they were happy to find a truck elsewhere or work with me on the black premium they had on the lot. I wasn't excited about black, but the brown interior won me over. They offered the same amount off on the premium that I got on the 1958 without me even asking, and offered a hugely discounted 10yr/100k extended warranty.

As I specifically told the GM - mistakes happen, but how those mistakes are fixed is what actually shows what an organization is made of. It means a lot more to say the dealership made a mistake and then made things right. I felt these guys were 100% honest the entire time, never any attempt to deny responsibility, and never any pressure for me to just deal with it. It's a smaller-town dealer, and they said specifically they want to be sure customers are happy, tell their friends, and keep coming back. I absolutely believe it - and I will definitely give them another shot whenever I need dealer service. I suspect they have implemented some procedural changes to ensure mistakes like my oil incident don't happen again.

Side note: The 1958 was the cooler of the two, and I will miss it. I loved the round headlights and cloth interior. So cozy and timeless. The LCLC Premium though is a nicer truck, and I'll probably be happier with it in the long run. I love the brown interior, and the stereo sounds excellent by comparison. The camera seems nice too - I was fine without the 360 on the 1958 because of the great visibility, but the backup camera was pretty bad. Unfortunately my new truck does lack the SBD, and it does have 20 inch wheels. I'm not super excited about the wheels, but it does feel like it handles a little sharper. Overall, very happy with the outcome of this entire story.

View attachment 38317

That's fantastic! An honest dealer! I have a Black LC and love it except the wheels, which were black too on the FE, swapped them for some bronze Tacoma Trail Hunter's.........

 

[LCOceans]

Really good to hear a story that ends this well. Kudos to Toyota.

 

[mrCharlie]

You could ask dealer for wheel/ tire swap and headlight swap.

Good thought, but I'm okay with the changes. They were happy to find a 1958 at another dealer if that's what I really wanted, but I decided to take the opportunity for an upgrade.

That's fantastic! An honest dealer! I have a Black LC and love it except the wheels, which were black too on the FE, swapped them for some bronze Tacoma Trail Hunter's.........

If I ever do a wheel swap that sounds like a great solution. The truck needs something besides the ugly iForceMax badge to break up the sea of blackness. I loved the black/white contrast on my 1958. I dare say this truck might need some kind of stripes...

 

[mrCharlie]

Thanks everyone for following along and all your advice along the way. It made it much easier to decide what the right answer was for me. I also appreciated all the advice to help ensure a good outcome. Fortunately I found an excellent, honest dealer who wanted to make things right and be sure I was happy - so none of that was necessary. The whole thing was resolved with a couple of conversations.

I don't know how many people have owned both a 1958 and Premium - especially anyone who loved their 1958 but made the change anyway. I'll try to get some seat time in the new truck over the next few weeks and post a review comparing the two.

 

[ct1958]

I'm still shaking my head on what a positive outcome you had. Good for you.

 

[colfishnski]

Toyota, like all manufacturers, have a spectrum of dealers from wretched to excellent. I bought my LC out of state also. They were great, good price and zero games. But I watched this thread with interest as a different servicing dealer can complicate things. That's really awesome to hear they went out of their way to accommodate you. Great job, I'm sure your approach and attitude had a lot to do with the outcome.

 

[mrCharlie]

Toyota, like all manufacturers, have a spectrum of dealers from wretched to excellent. I bought my LC out of state also. They were great, good price and zero games. But I watched this thread with interest as a different servicing dealer can complicate things. That's really awesome to hear they went out of their way to accommodate you. Great job, I'm sure your approach and attitude had a lot to do with the outcome.

It's smart business and long term thinking, especially important for a smallish-town dealer in a larger metro area with lots of options. If they fought or pushed back, or just told me to live with it, I tell everyone I know to avoid them. Instead, I now tell everyone that they made a mistake, completely owned it, and went out of their way to make things rights and make sure I was happy with the outcome. Even just at the individual level, I am comfortable taking my car back there for future service, knowing they will make it right if things go wrong.

 

[cvx5832LC]

Not to mention your old truck will probably just go straight into the used pool! For sale by the last weekend of the month.

 

[Area 51]

It always pays off to buy your vehicle from a reputable dealer. Then utilize those service areas for your shiny new high tech way cool vehicle.
Get stoopid, get cheep, get way too crafty and get screwed, over and over.
Be smart, dont worry, be happeee.

 

[Merle]

I am not sure if this is the best advice but that happened to me once. There is still oil in there. It’s not ideal but there was probably no damage. My $.02. I hope for the best.

 

[LC250UAE]

I've had my 1958 for just over two weeks, and I'm already up to ~1300 miles. Probably my favorite vehicle that I've owned, and one I intend to keep for a long time. This particular car was delivered to me with just 6 miles on it, 2 of which I put on during my initial test drive. I liked that since it meant some yokel didn't flog a fresh engine on a test drive. I've since babied it through the full break-in period as required, and even still been very light on the throttle.

So in the interest of longevity, I scheduled my initial oil change at a local dealer (which I did not buy the car from) today, paying out-of-pocket to keep the included full-service ones for later. When I was ready to leave, it sounded normal at first...then almost like something was rubbing the fan, or some other rotating part. A horrible, diesel-ish mechanical ticking sound that varied with RPM - but it quickly went into hybrid mode, so not long enough to confirm, or see if it fixed itself. I had my suspicions, but all I could do was a short loop in the parking lot to confirm the sound remained - which it did.

Pulled back in, turned truck off, got the service advisor who had me start it up. Sounded okay at initial idle on startup, but the tick was there when the engine revved up at all. Yelled for me to shut it off, pulled the dipstick to confirm it was dry. Checking with the shop, said "the oil pump malfunctioned and dispensed .5 quarts instead of 5.5". Offered that they would do an analysis at the next oil change to check for damage, which I got in writing. Said if that doesn't look good we will "talk to Toyota".

So that's where we are. Truck didn't run much with low oil since it was aggressively going into hybrid mode, probably no more than a minute or two after I got it - who knows how long in the shop. Probably never revved above 2500 rpm or so. Really surprised tech hadn't noticed something was wrong when backing it out of the service bay, but clearly said tech also didn't verify the oil level on the dipstick. I knew enough to know something was wrong, this could have been a major disaster (for them) for so many others, who would have driven until the engine seized. I'm not out for blood or to get something for nothing, but I want to keep this car a long time, and I don't want to worry that dumb mistake (that I paid someone else to make) has doomed the longevity of my engine. My questions:

• How worried should I be about engine damage?
• Am I likely in the clear if the analysis turn out okay?
• Even if the analysis is good at 5000 miles, did this do something that will show at, say, 150,000 miles?
• Should I wait until 10,000 mile for my next oil change to give whatever damage may have occurred the opportunity to show itself?
• Interestingly, no warning lights or notifications. I would have expected something to scream the oil level is low.
• What seems fair and reasonable to ask for here? I love the truck, I want to keep it - but if it does need a new engine, I'm a little uneasy about that level or work required on a truck I just bought. And then I have no truck while the work is being done. But I also don't want to have to worry about it dying early, or I'll end up trading it in way too soon.
• At minimum, regardless of the analysis, would it be fair to ask for a Toyota extended warranty? Ideally the highest mileage they offer, to ensure I'm covered if there are engine issues that come up well down the road?
• Any other advice?

The advisor is going to let the service manager know. I'm hoping someone reaches out tomorrow and makes a reasonable offer to make things right and set me at ease - whatever that is. I'm both hesitant to ever take the car back there since the tech didn't check the dipstick after (is that procedure, or a huge oversight?), but I'm stuck for at least the next oil change.

Thanks!

1. Oil filter out and cut and checked for debris.
2. Camera in each cylinder and check for any marks on cylinder head and walls.
3. Engine flush on top of existing oil added after the new filter and oil are replaced. Run at idle for 15 minutes.
4. Change oil filter and oil again with 5W-40.
5. After 1000 miles repeat and again cut oil filter and look for any metal shavings.

If at any point there are any "sparkling" parts in the oil, engine is toast and will need a rebuild. In your case a new engine.

 

[MoneyMan]

That caught me by surprise as well.

I live in rural Kauai. Toyota Dealership is 1 hr away or I would do this:

Can someone reading this thread confirm with dealership tech or service department:
1. Is there a low oil pressure light on dash light cluster?
2. If so, does it activate after driving vehicle with low oil pressure immediately or after a period of time?

Some of us are wondering why there wouldnt have been notice.

Thanks.

 

[guy]

I'm sorry to hear this but not surprised. I will not and I would advise not to have oil changes done at Toyota even free ever! Trust me on this, they are the worst. Now, for what damage they did, most likely engine and you should be very concerned. Again, I feel for you and would up channel your experience to Toyota corporation and have them replace your 1958. Do you trust them to swap out an engine after this?

I’ve got a new LC 2025 - 1700 miles in a few months. Brakes squeal when I back up and I have an aftermarket skid plate installed ( icon)
My local dealer from whom I purchased the vehicle does not return my calls - to the salesman and to service manager. All that said - I really don’t trust them for the first service or to put my skid plate back on properly - who do you use to service your vehicle ? Japanese specialist or just foreign car service shop