OP
OP
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- #21
Yeah kind of my thinking as well. And said tech did not think to verify the dipstick.
The Unexpected Risk of an Early Break-In Oil Change
- Thread starter mrCharlie
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Yeah kind of my thinking as well. And said tech did not think to verify the dipstick.
Turbo is potentially going to be the first thing to fail on you. You have my full sympathy and now i'm scared poo-less to go to the dealer for oil change.
Definitely consult with lawyer.
Does the landcruiser have solid or hydraulic lifters??
Definitely consult with lawyer.
Does the landcruiser have solid or hydraulic lifters??
If they can't do an oil change well and take it seriously, just imagine what else they won't do well...
Van Halen used to write into the contract for shows that there needed to be a bowl of M&M's with the brown ones removed. They knew if this didn't happen, no one read the contract, and was sure other more important things were missed as well (like rigging 1,000 lb speakers from the ceiling, correct sound levels, etc.) Seems like this Toyota Dealership left all the brown ones in the bowl...
Van Halen used to write into the contract for shows that there needed to be a bowl of M&M's with the brown ones removed. They knew if this didn't happen, no one read the contract, and was sure other more important things were missed as well (like rigging 1,000 lb speakers from the ceiling, correct sound levels, etc.) Seems like this Toyota Dealership left all the brown ones in the bowl...
All in all, it is unlikely your engine was damaged. Engine oil coats metal surfaces, so I doubt it caused bare metal pieces touching and wearing out in 2 minutes.
However, it is a major screwup for sure. It is also secondary screwup that they did not offer to fill the engine with oil, flush it and refill again. I would ask for extended warranty for the engine from the dealer and if they refuse, send a complaint to Toyota. But keep in mind that simply putting this as a google review sometimes hurt the dealer more than what Toyota can enforce, mainly because the actual owner of the dealer reads the review and gets mad.
However, it is a major screwup for sure. It is also secondary screwup that they did not offer to fill the engine with oil, flush it and refill again. I would ask for extended warranty for the engine from the dealer and if they refuse, send a complaint to Toyota. But keep in mind that simply putting this as a google review sometimes hurt the dealer more than what Toyota can enforce, mainly because the actual owner of the dealer reads the review and gets mad.
Well that’s not good so sorry man! The positive here is it’s a hybrid so it’s possible the low oil pressure immediately or quickly shut down the ICE and switched to electric.
What is done is done. What uraniumrich said is very important:
-drive an absolute minimum until you dump the oil and replace.
-cut open the oil filter and look for debris between the pleats.
-inspect the oil you drain in a clean oil drain pan in bright sun. Do you see any bright shiny material? This is tricky you need to make sure the pan is clean because dirt also can sparkle.
-I would send this dumped oil (what they added and I assume is in the crankcase now) to Blackstone for an analysis. So when you drain it you need to take a sample.
If all checks out above (no sparkles, nothing in filter, and good oil test) you are probably in good shape.
You have to decide how much you want to involve the dealer in all these tasks. Personally I would do all this myself and discuss the results with Toyota/dealer. You might want to try to meet with a Toyota district sales manager.
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- #26
I'd pull an oil sample now, just to have on hand ...... just in case, but the odds are it's ok for the reason mentioned above.
I would demand the dealership give you the extended warranty for future you.
As far as not taking it to a dealer for an oil change.......... crazy talk. Unless you change the oil yourself, any one you take it to, could have made the same mistake. I don't think the pump malfunctioned, I think the tech malfunctioned with the wrong setting on the pump!
I would demand the dealership give you the extended warranty for future you.
As far as not taking it to a dealer for an oil change.......... crazy talk. Unless you change the oil yourself, any one you take it to, could have made the same mistake. I don't think the pump malfunctioned, I think the tech malfunctioned with the wrong setting on the pump!
Sorry I meant Toyota district service manager. Also, document with pictures any debris you find in your oil filter and also photograph the drained oil in bright sun especially if it sparkles.
Hopefully you find nothing and the blackstone report is good. You will want to tell blackstone the situation. All your chemicals/additives will test like new you are specifically looking for metallic material in the oil. In the best circumstance the test will come back like essentially fresh oil.
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #28
That it sounded okay initially until I gave it a little throttle is the one thing that has me not going full doom and gloom. I suspected the problem quickly, and only drove arounds the lot because the truck was very persistently staying in hybrid mode - more than I've ever noticed before. But its also new enough I don't know what is typical.
I'm going to try to talk with the service manager in the morning and let them throw out the first offer make things right, whatever than happens to be. I'm mostly worried this will catch up to me in ten years, not the next oil change interval. I bought the truck for long trips and the ability to take it off the beaten path, and because I feel like it will last a long time. If I'm worried it has a diminished lifespan, how much do I trust it long term? I don't want to end up trading it way too soon because I think it's just a matter of time...
OP
OP
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- #29
If necessary, I might try to get a third party (professional, ideally certified in some capacity) to drain and do any analysis so that the dealer can't bring up any lack of experience on my part, if it comes down to a legal issue. One thing I did do while the advisor was off talking to the tech was take a video of me pulling the dipstick, and showing up close it was dry.
This sucks dirty pond water.
Get an attorney involved now. Which one? What kind of? I don’t know.
Drive your 1958 for about 10-20 miles. Do another oil change and send off the oil for analysis. It is very easy. Also check the filter, cutting it open to look for debris as others have said.
Get an attorney involved now. Which one? What kind of? I don’t know.
Drive your 1958 for about 10-20 miles. Do another oil change and send off the oil for analysis. It is very easy. Also check the filter, cutting it open to look for debris as others have said.
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The fact they refilled it without flushing it may be to your advantage. Get a sample of that oil and send it to Blackstone. They will compare it to averages of the same mileage. Get a good report, you sleep well. Get a bad report, you now have some sort of paperwork for compensation, an extended warranty, or if you’re lucky, a trade for what they have on the lot.
OP
OP
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- #33
Quick update: Got a call from the dealer this morning, extremely apologetic and entirely accepting blame. Said multiple times they will take care of it, since it's their fault. No attempts to deflect, dismiss my concerns, or anything else. That actually gives me some hope this will resolve amicably, whatever that happens to be.
They want me to drive it 100 miles or so then bring it in to inspect the oil before we decide on next steps. That seems like a pretty reasonable request. I'll try to do that today so we can hopefully have some answers soon.
My thinking at the moment for next steps, if the oil looks and tests okay:
• Request we continue doing analysis for at least the next few service intervals, in case accelerated wear is taking some time to show up.
• Provide a no-charge Toyota platinum warranty for the longest interval/highest mileage available, with the assumption the kind of damage this incident could have caused will be covered
• Keep an eye on things and treat my truck well as I always do - and watch for any signs of problems in the hopes nothing fails suddenly and catastrophically.
If it looks bad, or at least not great:
• Request a buyback, or trade for another truck that isn't broken.
• If they really want to push for replacing the engine/turbo (anything else this incident could have damaged?), I'd maybe accept that resolution. But that would need to be done in a reasonable timeframe (how long is that likely to take?). I would also need a loaner vehicle that I can attach my bike rack to, or at least haul my mountain bike in. Bike not touching my wife's i4.
They want me to drive it 100 miles or so then bring it in to inspect the oil before we decide on next steps. That seems like a pretty reasonable request. I'll try to do that today so we can hopefully have some answers soon.
My thinking at the moment for next steps, if the oil looks and tests okay:
• Request we continue doing analysis for at least the next few service intervals, in case accelerated wear is taking some time to show up.
• Provide a no-charge Toyota platinum warranty for the longest interval/highest mileage available, with the assumption the kind of damage this incident could have caused will be covered
• Keep an eye on things and treat my truck well as I always do - and watch for any signs of problems in the hopes nothing fails suddenly and catastrophically.
If it looks bad, or at least not great:
• Request a buyback, or trade for another truck that isn't broken.
• If they really want to push for replacing the engine/turbo (anything else this incident could have damaged?), I'd maybe accept that resolution. But that would need to be done in a reasonable timeframe (how long is that likely to take?). I would also need a loaner vehicle that I can attach my bike rack to, or at least haul my mountain bike in. Bike not touching my wife's i4.
Looks like a good plan. If the oil looks bad and they don't want to do a buyback, I would see what comes from your discussion with corporate before accepting engine replacement.
Sorry to sound confused, but, how much oil did the dealer add after you went back in? If they added a full 5 quarts, then they simply did not put any oil in the truck after the change. The oil pump malfunction would not make oil disappear, as in they added a full 5.5 quarts and the pump just did not work. Even if the pump malfunctioned, there would have been no need to add more oil if they put in the correct amount the first time. Also if the pump did malfunction, (which I really doubt happened) I would be concerned about that happening again i.e. a bad pump. Did they change the filter also? I assume that the filter on this truck is like all the recent Toyotas in that you only replace the filter element. The outside metal of the filter is permanent. This was how my 2010 4-runner was. Note getting that metal case off IMO is not anywhere as easy as just pulling off a filter.
Thanks
Paul
Thanks
Paul
Running the motor for two minutes without oil IMO is not ideal, but nothing to lose too much sleep over. Keep in mind I am not a mechanic; but even the thin oil used today provides some protection for a short period of time. Personally, I would be more concerned with the turbo as they are very particular when it comes to oil starvation.
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OP
OP
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- #37
Oil pump in this case meant what the tech used to dispense but oil into the engine. Not sure if that is the right term, but that is the term the advisor used.
Unfortunately, I didn't keep close enough track of how much oil was added since I was both distracted and trying to get the kid situated (his first time going along for an old change!). It was either 4.5 or 5.5, since I kept the half-full bottle "just in case it used oil" (also as physical evidence something went wrong). As best I know they replaced the filter, as requested. It does look like the filter on these is the more typical can style.
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #38
One thing making me feel slightly better is knowing hybrid system for these makes for a lot of start/stop cycles, so I would assume the engine is designed in some way to minimize wear and lack of oils pressure during these events. The engine did not sound good though.
This isn't a bad idea. Cheap insurance.
