NOT paying for features we paid for....

[supernova]

I prefer Apple CarPlay with Apple Maps because I find it more accurate than Toyota's navigation. However, CarPlay can be unreliable and randomly disconnect for long periods.

 

[DubDub]

The map data was in my vehicle when I drove it home. Are you saying the map data is cloud or intranet based and therefore it's a continuous data stream? So if the data set is loaded into the Nav deck at delivery, where is the extra expense for Toyota? I totally understand firmware and or software updates being an additional fee, but I do not understand a continuing charge for the initial dataset.

Riddle me this........ why in 2020, my Tacoma, salesman indicated the 2021 model would require a subscription for navigation. Every Toyota I owned before that didn't require a subscription. My Tacoma doesn't require a subscription for the OEM Navigation to work, but does require a subscription for updates (which I don't do for fear that the update would wipe out the Nav and then would have to have a monthly fee etc)....... So it is possible........

Your 2020 had pre-loaded nav data, and you would have had to download updates to keep it current. Current gen vehicles stream map services like a cell phone. So yes, cutting your comment back to the initial question, they are now a constant data stream.

 

[RideWithYanu]

The map data was in my vehicle when I drove it home. Are you saying the map data is cloud or intranet based and therefore it's a continuous data stream? So if the data set is loaded into the Nav deck at delivery, where is the extra expense for Toyota? I totally understand firmware and or software updates being an additional fee, but I do not understand a continuing charge for the initial dataset.

Good question, and I don’t know. All I know is my map data worked when I had the service, and didn’t when I didn’t. But you make a good point - my argument really only addresses the “keep it updated” aspect, and I agree that what it came with when you bought it should stay yours.

Riddle me this........ why in 2020, my Tacoma, salesman indicated the 2021 model would require a subscription for navigation. Every Toyota I owned before that didn't require a subscription. My Tacoma doesn't require a subscription for the OEM Navigation to work, but does require a subscription for updates (which I don't do for fear that the update would wipe out the Nav and then would have to have a monthly fee etc)....... So it is possible........

Also, I’m not “right” about anything here of course - I was just embracing OP’s call for opinions!

 

[EOD Guy]

Your 2020 had pre-loaded nav data, and you would have had to download updates to keep it current. Current gen vehicles stream map services like a cell phone. So yes, cutting your comment back to the initial question, they are now a constant data stream.

Again not understanding if there is a dataset at purchase, why that dataset can't be used as a hard dataset and updates would have to be purchased. I mean I do understand as monthly subscriptions generate revenue .......... but I don't agree with it.

 

[DubDub]

Again not understanding if there is a dataset at purchase, why that dataset can't be used as a hard dataset and updates would have to be purchased. I mean I do understand as monthly subscriptions generate revenue .......... but I don't agree with it.

I don’t like it as a matter of principle, but I have no interest in it so whether or not I agree with the business model is inherently biased.

Obviously I can’t answer whether or not Toyota maintains a hard dataset. Being an electronics guy I will say it would come as no surprise if it did not. Whereas repositories and PBs of physical HDs feeding onboard flash or
HDD media were required just half a decade ago, the ability to stream compressed data at the same decompressed resolution has become standard practice. The defense industry has incorporated this model with great success in areas that would surprise you. I just heard of a new model today. And, of course, it is expensive to maintain.

 

[SHCKR]

I wish Toyota did the same thing Subaru does and let you pre-purchase it for 5 years or so at point of sale. Our 26 outback cost about 400 bucks for five or so years for the same service.

 

[EOD Guy]

I don’t like it as a matter of principle, but I have no interest in it so whether or not I agree with the business model is inherently biased.

Obviously I can’t answer whether or not Toyota maintains a hard dataset. Being an electronics guy I will say it would come as no surprise if it did not. Whereas repositories and PBs of physical HDs feeding onboard flash or
HDD media were required just half a decade ago, the ability to stream compressed data at the same decompressed resolution has become standard practice. The defense industry has incorporated this model with great success in areas that would surprise you. I just heard of a new model today. And, of course, it is expensive to maintain.

I understand the technology extremely well, our portable xRay machines transmit images in real time with approx 1 mil-sec delay and the real-time stream can be captured into a hard data set that can be viewed / manipulated at anytime in the future.

 

[DubDub]

I understand the technology extremely well, our portable xRay machines transmit images in real time with approx 1 mil-sec delay and the real-time stream can be captured into a hard data set that can be viewed / manipulated at anytime in the future.

I’m sure, and don’t question your knowledge/experience at all. I wish I could go into more detail on what I mean, because it surprised me even. Then again, I cut my teeth on Teletype and WRN GPS.

 

[DocGringo]

I personally don’t need much of that stuff. I use Apple CarPlay for the most part. I have a portable Garmin I can use if I need to go somewhere with no service. The only thing that kept me from purchasing the vehicle early was that I misunderstood the remote start subscription. I thought you had to pay to start with the key fob, didn’t realize it was through an app. But further research helped me figure that out and I bought the truck. I do find it frustrating of a lot of things “needing” an app. A good example of this is Bose. I had a pair of wireless earbuds that REQUIRED the app to work, turned me off to the whole brand for a bit.

 

[cruiser_ss396]

Most of it I can do without because it’s redundant to what CarPlay does.

The exception is remote key fob functions. I travel a lot, and in the winter it’s nice to land home at the airport, start the car, and have it be warm by the time I reach the parking garage.

It’s not worth paying $15/month for, but I do miss it. FWIW, Chevy gave me 5 years on the equivalent functionality before they cut it off.

If I’m being completely honest, I like the Toyota a lot but I am realizing that the Tahoe was a pretty good product too, in its class. Mine didn’t give me much trouble over 120,000 miles, it just became old and too big.

The latest revisions of the Chevy Traverse and GMC Acadia are ridiculous missed opportunities. GM had just updated its midsized truck line and they could have released those SUVs as derivatives of the Colorado/Canyon platform with the accompanying rugged off-road appeal. They would have sold a crap ton of them. Instead they released new versions of the road wagons nobody wants.

You can now get the remote connect for $8 per mo plus tax. $15 fee is now what the $25 fee used to be and includes the navigation, music and remote connect. I have the $15 subscription right now just to test out the navigation to see if I like it. I typically use CarPlay anyway so will most likely drop down to the $8 per month

 

[MSINAL]

The pay to play navigation is useful when you need nav assistance RFN and carplay/android auto is acting up. For what toyota charges, they cant be banking much off it. I'll keep it so im notified of a break-in and for remote features.