Leveling Kit vs Spacer Lift vs Full Suspension Upgrade — What Actually Makes Sense on the LC250

[GR8Santini]

I'm still blown away by how good those wheels look on there. 10/10!

Matt - appreciate you noticing. The ‘Land Cruiser’ script center caps I had done by 3D arrived last night & my wife says it’s one of her favorite things on her new LC.

 

[Markarian421]

I'm still in the thinking stage -- I'd love an inch or two more clearance as long as it didn't mess up on road handling or reduce articulation or cause excess wear. I don't have plans to go much larger than 275/70R18 tires.

I watched the latest Ed Martin Toyota video where they installed a Terrain Tamer Lift Kit -- I'd never heard of Terrain Tamer before. Where do they fit in the scheme of things?

 

[DubDub]

I watched the lated Ed Martin Toyota video where they installed a Terrain Tamer Lift Kit -- I'd never heard of Terrain Tamer before. Where do they fit in the scheme of things?

I can’t be of much assistance, but I remember them being highly rated w/ leaf springs. I always went with Dakars, but they were always on the list.

EDIT: another Aussie company as well

 

[CerberusSasha]

I'm still in the thinking stage -- I'd love an inch or two more clearance as long as it didn't mess up on road handling or reduce articulation or cause excess wear. I don't have plans to go much larger than 275/70R18 tires.

I watched the latest Ed Martin Toyota video where they installed a Terrain Tamer Lift Kit -- I'd never heard of Terrain Tamer before. Where do they fit in the scheme of things?

I have the exact same mentality. Basically give it the extra couple inches that it should have had from the factory without ruining what it did come with from the factory as far as capability and comfort. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge on how to achieve this.

 

[DubDub]

I have the exact same mentality. Basically give it the extra couple inches that it should have had from the factory without ruining what it did come with from the factory as far as capability and comfort. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge on how to achieve this.

The best way is to do the easy things first, and then see if you need more. Start with a larger tire size (275/70/R18?). See of that solves your wants/needs. If not consider modest coilover gains, or maybe even a spacer (that hurts to even say). The point being, avoid changing geometry until you really want or determine a need. 2” can almost be done with tires and leveling, which retains the factory drive characteristics.

 

[CerberusSasha]

The best way is to do the easy things first, and then see if you need more. Start with a larger tire size (275/70/R18?). See of that solves your wants/needs. If not consider modest coilover gains, or maybe even a spacer (that hurts to even say). The point being, avoid changing geometry until you really want or determine a need. 2” can almost be done with tires and leveling, which retains the factory drive characteristics.

Tires, done last week. 275/70/R18 KO3s. I need to pick some sliders and buy those next and get out on the trails. Lots of the trail runs that the local groups in my area post tend to say lift required or rate the trail more than 5 on a 0-10 scale. I'm not sure how well a stock LC250 will handle those trails when it seems that everyone complains about the anemic ground clearance... Almost as much as we complain about the gas tank. Lol.
What do you mean by coilover gains? I've also got an '07 Ram 1500 that I leveled by mounting the springs higher on Bilstein 51s, is that what you mean? It definitely made the ride much rougher when I did that.

 

[Markarian421]

Tires, done last week. 275/70/R18 KO3s. I need to pick some sliders and buy those next and get out on the trails. Lots of the trail runs that the local groups in my area post tend to say lift required or rate the trail more than 5 on a 0-10 scale. I'm not sure how well a stock LC250 will handle those trails when it seems that everyone complains about the anemic ground clearance... Almost as much as we complain about the gas tank. Lol.
What do you mean by coilover gains? I've also got an '07 Ram 1500 that I leveled by mounting the springs higher on Bilstein 51s, is that what you mean? It definitely made the ride much rougher when I did that.

From personal experience, at a minimum get the Slee radiator mount reinforcer, or skid plates that mount to the recovery point instead of the radiator bracket, before going on a 5 or maybe even a 4. Any skid plate that mounts to the radiator bracket just increases your chance of bending the radiator bracket. I generally stick to 4 or easier and yet I somehow managed to bend my radiator mount without even knowing it.

 

[CerberusSasha]

From personal experience, at a minimum get the Slee radiator mount reinforcer, or skid plates that mount to the recovery point instead of the radiator bracket, before going on a 5 or maybe even a 4. Any skid plate that mounts to the radiator bracket just increases your chance of bending the radiator bracket. I generally stick to 4 or easier and yet I somehow managed to bend my radiator mount without even knowing it.

Do you know if the upgraded OEM plates mount to the radiator support? I think they look pretty good so I was thinking of going with those.

 

[Markarian421]

Do you know if the upgraded OEM plates mount to the radiator support? I think they look pretty so I was thinking of going with those.

Yes they do, that's what I have. Get the Slee support and then get them, the Slee support basically replaces a useless trim peace with actual reinforcement., the Toyota skids still work.

Before I further derail this thread, head on over to the thread on the radiator bracket reinforcement for more details:

Slee Heavy Duty Radiator Crossmember Reinforcement

We have released a new HD Radiator Crossmember Reinforcement. Features Compatible with OE Skid Plate (Some trimming required) Compatible with Toyota Updated Skid Plate (except for front trim piece) Compatible with Slee LC250 Skid Plate System [SOK2116 & SOK2117] Compatible with Slee LC250...

www.landcruiserforum.com

 

[DubDub]

Tires, done last week. 275/70/R18 KO3s. I need to pick some sliders and buy those next and get out on the trails. Lots of the trail runs that the local groups in my area post tend to say lift required or rate the trail more than 5 on a 0-10 scale. I'm not sure how well a stock LC250 will handle those trails when it seems that everyone complains about the anemic ground clearance... Almost as much as we complain about the gas tank. Lol.
What do you mean by coilover gains? I've also got an '07 Ram 1500 that I leveled by mounting the springs higher on Bilstein 51s, is that what you mean? It definitely made the ride much rougher when I did that.

“modest coilover gains” just best describes the various 0-3” adjustable offerings from companies like Bilstein, Fox and ARB/OME. I personally plan to go with one of those 3 once Bilstein finally steps to the plate, but am eyeballing the Fox. I am not looking for lift though, I am looking to make the rear suspension a little more robust to accommodate added weight back aft.

 

[WeCruising]

Does anyone have experience with ADS shocks? I am curious about them.

 

[LCOceans]

Arizona Desert Shocks. I have heard very good but do not have first-hand knowledge.

 

[b407driver]

I'm Seeing more and more 250 owners starting to plan suspension upgrades, so I figured I’d lay out the basic differences between the common approaches…

You forgot the best approach for 90% of people:

Leave the suspension alone, maybe add larger tires.

The tangible benefits of this approach mostly outweigh the perceived benefits of all the approaches you covered, again, for 90%+ of people.

 

[sweet5ltr]

Tires, done last week. 275/70/R18 KO3s. I need to pick some sliders and buy those next and get out on the trails. Lots of the trail runs that the local groups in my area post tend to say lift required or rate the trail more than 5 on a 0-10 scale. I'm not sure how well a stock LC250 will handle those trails when it seems that everyone complains about the anemic ground clearance... Almost as much as we complain about the gas tank. Lol.
What do you mean by coilover gains? I've also got an '07 Ram 1500 that I leveled by mounting the springs higher on Bilstein 51s, is that what you mean? It definitely made the ride much rougher when I did that.

We have done so much without a lift and 265/70R18 AT tires. We are planning on doing the White Rim trail out at Moab this year, which is around 90-100mi off road and a multi-day trip.

The LC has excellent articulation from the factory, and MOST lift kits will reduce that in the front (Including those from ARB). Yes, you can do a 5/10 trail, but all trails aren't created equal. I would start with every piece of armor that Toyota sells, along with rock rails. Then, invest in a lot of recovery equipment. Figure out the limits of the base LC (which are VERY high) and yourself. My limit is a 5/10 on well know routes, and a 4/10 otherwise. The issue is, especially here out West, that 4/10 can become literally impassible in the rain / snow / or depending on season. 5/10 trails may have some very steep ledges or drop-offs that you would feel comfortable doing in a beater, but not a $70,000 brand-new Toyota.

My first trip to Moab, it was bone-stock, including the OEM 245's. We did some very fun and scenic trails (which the most scenic trail in Moab you can basically do in a Subaru) - so not all trails are created equal. I want to say we did 40-50mi off-road the first day.

Worst thing that'll happen (for me anyways), is you need to track build or choose an easier line. Not every obstacle on the trail needs to be tackled, and this isn't really a rock crawler by any stretch. I've had to get out and build a lot of track, it takes a little time, but that's the fun aspect of it.

 

[CerberusSasha]

We have done so much without a lift and 265/70R18 AT tires. We are planning on doing the White Rim trail out at Moab this year, which is around 90-100mi off road and a multi-day trip.

The LC has excellent articulation from the factory, and MOST lift kits will reduce that in the front (Including those from ARB). Yes, you can do a 5/10 trail, but all trails aren't created equal. I would start with every piece of armor that Toyota sells, along with rock rails. Then, invest in a lot of recovery equipment. Figure out the limits of the base LC (which are VERY high) and yourself. My limit is a 5/10 on well know routes, and a 4/10 otherwise. The issue is, especially here out West, that 4/10 can become literally impassible in the rain / snow / or depending on season. 5/10 trails may have some very steep ledges or drop-offs that you would feel comfortable doing in a beater, but not a $70,000 brand-new Toyota.

My first trip to Moab, it was bone-stock, including the OEM 245's. We did some very fun and scenic trails (which the most scenic trail in Moab you can basically do in a Subaru) - so not all trails are created equal. I want to say we did 40-50mi off-road the first day.

Worst thing that'll happen (for me anyways), is you need to track build or choose an easier line. Not every obstacle on the trail needs to be tackled, and this isn't really a rock crawler by any stretch. I've had to get out and build a lot of track, it takes a little time, but that's the fun aspect of it.

Thank you. It's good to hear from someone doing trails in a stock LC. YouTube reviews seem to make it look very capable in stock version, although they usually say they could use better tires. I've never had much interest in rock crawling, but I want to be able to go out and be comfortable on trails that require some level of off-road capability from the vehicle, especially when those trails lead to somewhere cool. I have no problem bypassing obstacles that I think would cause damage either, when it's an option. My concern is trails where that's not an option.

 

[Matthew@LC250Mods]

Terrain Tamers is OLD school Aussie tech. Definitely well built but not common in the states these days. Think OME Nitrochargers but less refined and with less published info out there.

 

[Matthew@LC250Mods]

You forgot the best approach for 90% of people:

Leave the suspension alone, maybe add larger tires.

The tangible benefits of this approach mostly outweigh the perceived benefits of all the approaches you covered, again, for 90%+ of people.

Actually very valid.

I was assuming people reading suspension threads were those already looking to modify, but you're absolutely right: for most, especially who use them as daily drivers, the OEM suspension gets the job done just fine! A lot of people would be surprised how capable a stock LC/FJ/4Runner is in bone stock form.

 

[Matthew@LC250Mods]

I have the exact same mentality. Basically give it the extra couple inches that it should have had from the factory without ruining what it did come with from the factory as far as capability and comfort. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge on how to achieve this.

While everyone on IG loves flexing their huge setup with 37's, I think what you're wanting is really the sweet spot and where most of us would like to be.

If you like the way the truck rides from the factory, the key is figuring out whether you truly need “a few inches” of lift, or just enough clearance to run the tire size you’re after.

A couple things to consider:

• Larger tires alone will give you real ground clearance at the diff.
• A lift with a gentle damper or even just a leveling kit will improve wheel clearance and stance dramatically without giving the rig a whole new personality.
• Switching to a full-blown off-road damper changes the personality fast and often leaves you thinking "Oh shoot. I went too far".

The sweet spot for most people who want to keep OEM feel is:
– No more lift than you need
– No more spring rate than you need
– Carefully chosen tire size and load range

What tire size are you hoping to run?

 

[Matthew@LC250Mods]

Tires, done last week. 275/70/R18 KO3s. I need to pick some sliders and buy those next and get out on the trails. Lots of the trail runs that the local groups in my area post tend to say lift required or rate the trail more than 5 on a 0-10 scale. I'm not sure how well a stock LC250 will handle those trails when it seems that everyone complains about the anemic ground clearance... Almost as much as we complain about the gas tank. Lol.
What do you mean by coilover gains? I've also got an '07 Ram 1500 that I leveled by mounting the springs higher on Bilstein 51s, is that what you mean? It definitely made the ride much rougher when I did that.

You've got the order of operations down!

Once you’re happy with tire size and height, sliders add a TON of utility.

How are you liking the KO3s?

 

[CerberusSasha]

You've got the order of operations down!

Once you’re happy with tire size and height, sliders add a TON of utility.

How are you liking the KO3s?

I don't really want to go larger than the 275/70r18s that I have now unless I go with a pizza cutter 34" (if it fits in spare tire location) because of the spare tire location fitment.
I've had KO2s for years and the KO3s definitely ride a bit rougher. Right now I'm trying to figure out the right psi to run for the best balance of comfort and MPGs. I filled up the tank today after 6 days and almost 200 miles running 37 psi for my daily driving and Fuelio said 16.86 mpg. I'm not happy with that, so I increased to 40 psi and will see what happens. I had previously gotten 20 mpg at 37 psi on an overnight trip to Badwater Basin and Tecopa and back to Vegas.