Anyone experience a rough idle / hybrid issue with their LC250?

[Trail250]

Well, if you know me and my videos, I'm one of the biggest Land Cruiser advocates, so here we go...

Trying to figure out what could be going on before I take this to Toyota.

Yesterday I was idling for about 10 minutes when the engine went through what seemed like its normal gas/hybrid cycle. Except this time something didn't seem to engage correctly. The RPM dropped, and the vehicle started running rough. I shut it off immediately. It was only around 80 degrees outside, and I was able to drive back with no issues.

Today it happened again.

I had been driving normally and then idled at a store for about 10 minutes. It was 114 outside. During what seemed like another normal engine/hybrid cycle, the RPM dropped to around 500, and the whole vehicle started shaking. Giving it a little gas immediately smoothed it out.

I drove home with no real issues, but this is where it got strange. The hybrid system still showed READY, but I wasn't seeing any hybrid output on the gauge while driving. The Land Cruiser actually felt like it was driving without the hybrid system. Downshifts were harder, shifts were more noticeable and I could really feel the turbo having to spool between them.

When I got home I grabbed my camera and was able to catch the rough idle happening again. The vehicle was shaking pretty violently, but once again giving it gas smoothed everything out.

I shut the vehicle off and restarted it and hybrid output came back, although the vehicle still didn't feel completely normal.

I let it sit for about an hour and was able to reproduce the rough idle almost immediately after starting it again.

It doesn't really feel like a normal engine misfire to me because once I'm moving it drives fine and giving it throttle clears up the shaking. It almost seems related to the transition between the gas engine and hybrid system, but I'm not sure.

Anyone else with an LC250 or Toyota i-FORCE MAX experienced anything like this?

I have it happening on video now, so Toyota is probably my next stop.

 

[sooperslow]

I've had this happen 2 times in 75k miles. It was trying to idle around 500 rpm and running very rough. Both times I was sitting in a parking lot idling for maybe 5 minutes. If I remember right, both times the ambient temp was very hot (I live in Phoenix). Both times I immediately drove off and things went back to normal. Occurred 1 time last summer and 1 time this summer.

 

[RoundRock_Cruiser]

I've had this happen 2 times in 75k miles. It was trying to idle around 500 rpm and running very rough. Both times I was sitting in a parking lot idling for maybe 5 minutes. If I remember right, both times the ambient temp was very hot (I live in Phoenix). Both times I immediately drove off and things went back to normal. Occurred 1 time last summer and 1 time this summer.

Exactly the same for me, 2 times roughly a week apart. Just left work and started the truck, it was blazing hot so i had the ac blasting and the seats blowing, soon noticed the rough idle and the truck started sputtering like it had a carburetor. I revved the motor and drove off. It happened again under similar situation but cleared with normal driving. Hasn't reoccurred since. Thanks for posting, I thought it was just me. I will bring it up at my next oil change. My truck has 27k miles.

 

[cruiser_ss396]

Not a Land Cruiser although I have one and live in Tucson. Never experienced this with my 1958. But……
My 2008 Tundra had what seems like a similar issue.
It was doing the same thing, pretty hot out and then had an idle issue; very low and stumbling and would go away with a slight throttle and drive normally. It was hit and miss but got worse and eventually required me to be in neutral at a light to keep it running. A Toyota truck friend said it might be the MAF, even though it did not have a code.
It turned out to be a dirty MAF sensor and throttle body. It his was little disturbing because I maintain my vehicles impeccably well. So while doing the cleaning of the throttle body and installing a new OEM MAF, I looked pulled the air cleaner. This is when I noticed what happened after some investigation. I had replaced my air filter with the auto parts branded filter while on a road trip and driving through a really bad dust storm in Nevada. I always used a Toyota OEM.

Well this filters rubber seal after some investigation did not complete the seal in the air box. I could see a dust/dirt trail down the side from the area it was not sealed on. This allowed the dirt to get to and eventually dirty up the MAF and the throttle body.

Saving $15 on a filter cost $125.00 for a new MAF.
A MAF can be cleaned, you can try it but I just bought a new one. Once again just another reason to avoid non OEM garbage parts.

 

[D-mac]

Saving $15 on a filter cost $125.00 for a new MAF.
A MAF can be cleaned, you can try it but I just bought a new one. Once again just another reason to avoid non OEM garbage parts.

I've been using the drop-in K&N filter, to make sure my MAF sensor gets a nice, thick coating of filter oil. Engine has been running great with a little extra turbo boost woosh for the last 10k miles!

 

[Trail250]

The problem happened to me two days ago while the ambient temp was 85 degrees, and I was idling for about 10 minutes I did have the 2400-watt inverter on. I turned off the vehicle right away and had not problems on my road trip. Yesterday, temperatures were high, 114 degrees and idling for about 10 minutes, and the problem came back. I did not turn off the vehicle and drove home like that. No hybrid output. I was able to replicate it at least 3 different times.

Woke up this morning; ambient temps are around 80 degrees, and i let the engine warm-up drove it around the block with no ac on and hybrid motor was able to take over at low speeds. Wasn't able to replicate it during the drive.

 

[LCtrek]

The problem happened to me two days ago while the ambient temp was 85 degrees, and I was idling for about 10 minutes I did have the 2400-watt inverter on. I turned off the vehicle right away and had not problems on my road trip. Yesterday, temperatures were high, 114 degrees and idling for about 10 minutes, and the problem came back. I did not turn off the vehicle and drove home like that. No hybrid output. I was able to replicate it at least 3 different times.

Woke up this morning; ambient temps are around 80 degrees, and i let the engine warm-up drove it around the block with no ac on and hybrid motor was able to take over at low speeds. Wasn't able to replicate it during the drive.

I can't say I've had this happen on mine, but have read of it happening before from other users. Could you post a video of it?

 

[cruiser_ss396]

I've been using the drop-in K&N filter, to make sure my MAF sensor gets a nice, thick coating of filter oil. Engine has been running great with a little extra turbo boost woosh for the last 10k miles!

Mine was aftermarket paper filter and it’s seal was bad. I never said anything about using a K&N filter.

 

[Trail250]

Just happened to me again today.

It was extremely hot in Phoenix. My wife drove the Land Cruiser to work, where it sat outside in the sun all day. She drove it home, and it sat in the garage for about three hours.

I started it up later to run some errands and immediately got the rough idle again.

The bigger issue was that the hybrid motor basically stopped engaging. I drove around for about an hour running errands, and the LC was operating almost entirely on the gas engine. Initially, I had to give it some throttle at stops just to keep it from idling rough.

If I shut the vehicle off and restarted it, the hybrid system would work again briefly, but shortly afterward it would stop engaging. I could actually feel it happen when the vehicle tried transitioning into EV mode while coasting.

After about 20 minutes of driving in cooler nighttime temperatures—still around 104°F—the rough idle improved, but the hybrid motor still wouldn't consistently engage.

So at this point, there definitely seems to be some correlation with extreme heat. I had zero issues like this last summer, but this is now the second time it's happened this summer during extreme temperatures.

The vehicle is still drivable when this happens, but it's basically operating like a gas-only Land Cruiser until the hybrid system decides to cooperate again.

The hybrid battery air filters were cleaned a few weeks ago, so those aren't clogged. I also don't believe this is an issue with the gas engine itself. Everything I've experienced so far seems related to the hybrid system or the transition between the gas engine and hybrid motor.

At this point, I wouldn't even feel comfortable driving it across Phoenix on the I-10 in the middle of a summer afternoon.

No codes so Toyota can't do shit but it will be another scorcher tomorrow so I might have some luck if I can get it to replicate at home.

 

[LCOceans]

I had seen your video on this issue a couple of weeks ago, prior to reading this post now. Seems definitely related to heat, and I would say also seems rare with only 3 or 4 on this forum having seen the issue. Not a car expert by any means, but there must be something wrong with wiring or whatever causes the hybrid engine to fire, that is exacerbated in extreme heat.

OK, generally I am not a fan of A.I. but in this case I am curious so I entered this into A.I. just for kicks and this is what it says (in case you have not done this). I have almost no understanding of what this is saying so no idea if this makes sense or not, but thought I would pass along. I'll say when I have tried A.I., I find so much of what A.I. spits out is wrong, but who knows. Maybe in this case it is on to something....

 

[MSINAL]

The AC compressor is electric, so it doesnt load the engine as an ancillary (belt driven), but, maybe the motor/generator is generating significant current to run the compressor, which does load the engine. Parking a hot car in the garage causes significant heat soak if there isn't air flow. The catalytic converter is well over 1000°f and the engine temp flares once parked. Heat from the cat will naturally rise into engine bay.
My guess, and it is a guess, is by parking in the garage, the hybrid components are heated beyond safe operating temps and then work at reduced capacity.
We also park hot cars in our hot garage, and live in hot southern climate, but never had this issue. However, I have a 14" fan running all the time (on low) that blows under the engine compartments of vehicles. I'll even open the hood if I'm concerned about the heat soak, typically after towing.

 

[Trail250]

When i say rough Idle its not like high idle RPMs it drops down to 500 RPMs and you hear the gear box starts to sound clanky. The rough idle physically shakes the engine and exhaust.

 

[Trail250]

 

[ptahkeem]

Do you have an obd2 reader? If so, record temps(engine coolant, atf pan1/pan3, hybrid inverter, etc tc)as well as ambient(outside and as close as you can get a temp sensor to the battery pack) when these happen? I have a feeling the hybrid system isn’t wanting to engage the battery because it may be too hot. Just a guess though. I think a few people have suggested cleaning your battery air filters but you’ve probably done that.

 

[SGaynor]

I've been using the drop-in K&N filter, to make sure my MAF sensor gets a nice, thick coating of filter oil. Engine has been running great with a little extra turbo boost woosh for the last 10k miles!

You do know that oil degrades/destroys MAFs, right?

Not to mention "more air" through a filter equals more dirt through the filter. Not a good combination.

If you think a CAI or a (worse) air filter is going to do much in the way of horsepower for a 2.4L engine at 2000 rpms, you're mistaken.

Save your MAF, your engine, and yourself, headaches and just use a standard filter. Throw the K&N in the trash.

 

[cruiser_ss396]

Been hot in Tucson also, I have not been having an issue. Was also in Vegas and nothing. Seems odd.

Are your hybrid filters clean ? Not blocked? I know you have dogs are they shedding? Or the vent blocked near the rear by the inverter plug

 

[LCtrek]

I'm in Vegas and leave my car outside baking in 110 heat all day and haven't had this happen yet. These batteries are air cooled from cabin temp. You have cranked the AC down and had it blasting yet this problem still occurs?

 

[Trail250]

I'm in Vegas and leave my car outside baking in 110 heat all day and haven't had this happen yet. These batteries are air cooled from cabin temp. You have cranked the AC down and had it blasting yet this problem still occurs?

Yup happened within a few minutes when i turned it on and started loading it up. Literally had to keep hitting the throttle while backing out of the driveway to keep it from rpm dropping.

 

[LCOceans]

Have you tried turning the A/C off to see if it changes anything?

 

[D-mac]

Save your MAF, your engine, and yourself, headaches and just use a standard filter. Throw the K&N in the trash.

I love all of destruction I can unleash on this Toyota and other motors over the last 25+ years with K&N filters and factory recommended oil change intervals! So far I have been unsuccessful in causing mayhem and these things just keep on running for some reason .