Honest LC250 review that goes into more technical details & why Toyota missed the mark on LC250

[ptahkeem]

I’m fairly sure 4Runners, except the trailhunter/trd pro, also get the lower angle CV Axles as well as the 8.2” diff and probably similar thickness frame metal.

My guess is Toyota needed to do things to differentiate the GX550 and the LC when they launched and then the Tacoma/4Runner needed to slot in somewhere in the middle. It’s a bit unusual that the Tacoma does get the better angle CVs and the larger 9” differential when it basically has the same powertrain as the LC/4R/taco.

I think what people ultimately forget is that these 250 vehicles are light duty Landcruiser Prados and already perform much better than the 150 counterparts. what else do you need. If I’m not mistaken, Toyota has a FJ cruiser like Landcruiser in the works and maybe that will be something that Kai can compare directly to the FJ cruiser.

 

[uraniumrich]

Tinkerer is Rad. He had really, really solid observations. Gotta admit, my heart sank a little with some of the points he made about the sway bar, rear diff. and CVs. But it is what is. I really like my LC and this doesn;t change my prospect of owning it for at least 10 years. Maybe gonna look into a beefed up sway bar though, the wallow is real.

*Edit: I wonder if the smaller rear differential has something to do with dedicated full-time 4 wheel drive vs. part-time with the rear differential being under more long-term stress?

I liked the review, but he's biased towards a particular use case of the LC - why else compare it to the FJ? I get it - the FJ was a cool, but quirky machine. If they made the FJ and the LC right now, no way I'd buy the FJ and it wouldn't be close. Based on the review, I'd expect Kai to go for an FJ. Is Kai spot on with some of his critiques? Maybe. You can read about some of his complaints here on the forum and I think a lot of us might agree. What Kai conveniently leaves out of his critique, is that the Toyota design team (engineers/sales/VPs) most likely considered all of the things Kai mentioned. So, if those things are so great, then why leave them out? Because every choice they made had an opportunity cost (and a real cost!) associated with it. I'd bet the Chief Engineer at Toyota would be able to shed a lot of light on the reasons why Toyota made each and every decision.

Here's an excellent example - Kai complains about the size of the gas tank on the LC250 (legit complaint IMHO). Using EPA ratings, the range of the LC250 at 23 mpg combines and 17.9 gallons is 412 miles. For an FJ using EPA ratings, the range at 18 mpg and 19 gallons is just 342 miles (and 345 miles for a 200 series!) That means the LC250 received a 20% jump in range compared to the much smaller and lighter FJ Cruiser. Cool. Still, I think most of us would agree that the LC could have (and should have) a slightly larger tank. On my wheels (Method 703/Falken WildPeak AT4W 255/80R17) I'm getting a real world range somewhere closer to 360 miles in daily use. So, um, Kai, that's a little DIShonest, don't you think?

Next up, the rear differential size. Kai, you can't be serious that you're only comparing the size of the rear diff between the FJ and LC, right? You don't even profess to know if one is necessarily better than the other. On this note, Eric at Ed Martin did a great job actually comparing the differentials - Is it a real Land Cruiser? Based on Eric's data, the LC250 certainly appears to have a slightly less stout gear set than the 200/100/80 series. I'm sure they could've gone with the slightly beefier ring gear in the 200 series, but every choice has a trade-off. If you keep trying to build a 300 series, pretty soon you have the weight and cost of a 300 series.

Honest price for the FE LC250? Good grief. He's comparing the base GX550 OverTrail to the FE? If all you compare is price and don't look at the details, you might think the GX OverTrail was the better buy. But, ignoring all those details is just a DIShonest smear. At this point, his video has mostly become a hack job. Kai is smart. Kai puts out excellent engineering/mechanical videos about Toyota products. C'mon, man, this is way below your standards.

He waited a year to put out a sub-par critique of a pretty outstanding , but imperfect machine. Sadness.

 

[uraniumrich]

Sold more units in 2024 alone, compared to all 200 series sold in the US. So Toyota couldn't care less about what randos over at youtube think.

I believe you are trying to say that Toyota has sold more LC250 in the US in the first several months of production, than all of the 200 series sold in the US from 2008-2021 (around 26,000 sold). The estimate for LC 250 sales in 2024 alone is 24,000 sold.

 

[uraniumrich]

What I don't understand is how the 250 ended up the same weight as the 300, despite so much "weight saving".

Compare the LX700h (curb weight 5945 lbs) to the LC (5445 lbs). That makes the 300 series about 10% heavier. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the LC is (or should be) a light weight vehicle. It's definitely lighter than the 300 series hybrid equivalent.

 

[t3lcfe]

I watched the video. Yes, I do respect his view points and agree, especially, the fuel tank capacity.
Am I still loving my LC(FE)? The answer is huge YES. I own the ultimate off-road tank Gwagon, but my LCFE still gain a big place in my heart (second top just right behind my G)

After experienced my LC and now watched this video, I gladly to confirm that beside other mods, the 3 very essential “loves” that I dedicated on her are right decisions for my hard off-road use: 35” AT tires, 2” fully lifted with TC upper control arms+Kings shocks system, completed skid plate set.
Eveytime I go off-road, I always carry two 3-gallon rotopax with me to over come the small fuel tank!

Gang, all statements above are my very own experiences / view points…so please take easy if you disagree

I still love my LC with all my heart beats On-road and off-road.

 

[Area 51]

Toyota didn't miss anything. They pay very good US marketing and advertising firms as well as feed money into various influencers to know exactly where they want to go and how/ when.
Don't be distracted, in the end it's always a compromise of some sort or another, cash flow is the decision maker.
Cant wait to see what the Land Cruiser TRD PRO ends up being.

We are already being teased for response.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/imagined-2025-toyota-land-cruiser-trd-pro-embraces-the-extreme-off-road-suv-lifestyle-231441.html

 

[uraniumrich]

The rear diff size thing is the piece of this I really don’t understand. My suspicion is that they went with the weight saving.

I watched the video. Yes, I do respect his view points and agree, especially, the fuel tank capacity.
Am I still loving my LC(FE)? The answer is huge YES. I own the ultimate off-road tank Gwagon, but my LCFE still gain a big place in my heart (second top just right behind my G)

After experienced my LC and now watched this video, I gladly to confirm that beside other mods, the 3 very essential “loves” that I dedicated on her are right decisions for my hard off-road use: 35” AT tires, 2” fully lifted with TC upper control arms+Kings shocks system, completed skid plate set.
Eveytime I go off-road, I always carry two 3-gallon rotopax with me to over come the small fuel tank!

Gang, all statements above are my very own experiences / view points…so please take easy if you disagree

I still love my LC with all my heart beats On-road and off-road.

Agreed - I'd love 2-3 more gallons. But, the range of the LC is 20% greater than either the FJ or 200 series, yet we all act like the 250 is a step backwards.

 

[t3lcfe]

Agreed - I'd love 2-3 more gallons. But, the range of the LC is 20% greater than either the FJ or 200 series, yet we all act like the 250 is a step backwards.

His view points focus only about off-road things. LC is more than “just off-road things”.
With some mods we can over come some weakness and get the “ultimate off-road machine” for challenging terrain trails (while up-scale on road vehicle).
Most of us don’t really need those mods for average Overlanding / off-roading.
Love and proud of your LC

 

[EOD Guy]

I currently own a Tacoma and an LC, like them both equally, they get about the same MPG.

The Taco is way cooler looking and is my daily driver, the LC is a lot more easy on long trips (room wise).

 

[Doggman1525]

I dunno. Seems like a good example of how you can be right and wrong at the same time. Can't quibble with his findings - he does a good job of pointing out what he sees as shortcomings in comparison to its predecessors and to various other current options while providing evidence to support why Toyota coulda/shoulda made different design/engineering choices but then he loses me when he tries to relate these presumed shortcomings to real life.

Yeah, it doesn't drive like a Lambo, it can't tow a fifth wheel and I guess if your life revolves around gnarly rock crawls and hill climb competitions you might be disappointed. I had an FJ too, I loved it and even regret giving it up sometimes but it couldn't do any of those things either, certainly not in stock trim so comparing the LC to some resto-mod on steroid makes no sense.

Putting the FELC up against the mythical $72k GX550 Overtrail is also pointless. The FE was it's own thing, came at a premium for emotional reasons and giving all due props to the early adopters who created this community, but Toyota is done with those so just stop with the bitching about $75k Prados. As for the GX, they're basically unobtainium and when a stripped down Overtrail does appear from out of the Ether the out the door price is not the same cost as the top spec Toyota. Realistically, and if you insist on taking your Lexus out in to the wilds, you're probably looking at the Overtrail+ which is more like $85-90k.

Finally, if Toyota ever really did address all these (and many other) complaints in a manner that would satisfy the old school fanboys (bigger diff, E-KDSS, no hybrid, 50 gallon gas tank and 1000 miles of range, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera) you know what you have? A $90k+ LC 200 (or today, the 300), the same one nobody could afford 5 years ago and no one can afford today.

So, could Toyota have done things differently? Sure. Does Toyota think they should have done things differently? I doubt it. Does the Market want Toyota to do something differently? Apparently not, not if you let the sales numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Altitude]

You could walk from here around the block and back on your fingertips. That would be very hard to do. But, really, who would care?

 

[arash]

Love Tinker’s videos. This one was rough to watch initially, but thinking about it the only negative he mentioned that makes a remote difference for how I use the vehicle is the small fuel tank which we’re all well aware of.

All of the other aspects might come into play if you’re on putting 35” tires, aftermarket suspensions, and rock crawling or seeking out difficult off-road obstacles. I go off road, but it’s to explore and not to go over the roughest terrain I can find. 33’s, stock suspension, and the components that come on the truck will serve those needs I’m sure.

 

[grandsons]

Here is a foreign comment on the valuable Thinkerer video. In Europe we have the diesel non hybrid engine with 80 or 110L tank, so the range is ok. The steering feeling on pavement may feel weak because it's seems to be optimised for unpaved road. The suspension is on comfy side. The hybride cross member still exist on diesel's but is further front. The rear differential size is optimised for permanent four wheels drive it works in conjunction with the front axle permanently and light car (LC250 is light compared to LC200).

I don't know in the US, but in Europe any car must meet some stability requirement. A moose test is impressive to watch, and some cars a more dangerous than others. Any off road pick-up truck will flip on the side at 80km/h when changing lane abruptly. Therefore the market tendency for the offroader's is to lower the car center of gravity. It's impossible to offer high ground clearance and good stability on asphalt. What is curious is that reputable manufacturers do not offer innovative solutions in terms of suspension with height-adjustable and electronically variable damping on extreme off roaders.

And to conclue, please let me introduce a particular off road driving style. So in order to keep the car safe on pavement, skid/bashing plate are fitted. Some scratches may occur but who cares? Here is a video showing this driving style. Is ground clearance over rated?

 

[Piggy]

Hybrid probably

The hybrid battery is pretty heavy.

Interestingly the diesel mild hybrid is heavier, despite the tiny little battery. Can’t find weight for the 2.4-non hybrid and the 2.7 petrol engine or diesel, which I think would be interesting.

Looking at the 4Runner specs hybrid and non-hybrid, massive weight difference there.

The rear differential size is optimised for permanent four wheels drive it woks in conjunction with the front axle permanently.

“Optimised” doesn’t make much sense, because the GX is also full time 4WD and some 4Runners too.

 

[Piggy]

Compare the LX700h (curb weight 5945 lbs) to the LC (5445 lbs). That makes the 300 series about 10% heavier. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the LC is (or should be) a light weight vehicle. It's definitely lighter than the 300 series hybrid equivalent.

The weight difference between the 250 & 300, both VX Limited diesels is only 65kg ~145lbs, which is tiny in the grand scheme of things!
The 250 mild hybrid diesel is 2595kg which is 5720lbs and it’s Hybrid battery in the 250 weighs about 7kg/16lbs!!

 

[Don]

The point is still that the vehicle comparison is between a full time and a part time four wheel drive systems. The diff is too small if it breaks. The LC is much more capable of where it provides power than the part time system in the FJ and other non full time 4wd vehicles.

 

[uraniumrich]

The weight difference between the 250 & 300, both VX Limited diesels is only 65kg ~145lbs, which is tiny in the grand scheme of things!
The 250 mild hybrid diesel is 2595kg which is 5720lbs and it’s Hybrid battery in the 250 weighs about 7kg/16lbs!!

The numbers I quoted are for the US version of the LC250 and Lexus LX700h.

 

[jay3253]

I read somewhere back in the late 80s early 90s that someone was running 9sec quarter miles with a stock 7.5in Ford Mustang rear end. I also read they would break if you looked at them funny. With that said, and I respect Tinker for his in depth reviews and insight but only time will tell if the rear diff makes a difference or not. As for the front axels those are the ones I would change out and they are direct replacements for our stock shafts. There are a lot of very built 100s, 200s and FJs that didn't do that are those axels are fine. There are also many that broke right away (mine being one of them). I am looking at changing my front axels out for the high angle ones for the TRDs. As for the rear, if they ever put a front locker in I will change out both front and rear.

 

[LC - legz]

Who cares! Blah Blah Blah, same old story. imagine if everyone nit picked and over thought about things like LC's. make this forum about helping each other and lifting the LC name up, take all this negative s*** elsewhere. I can only imagine the yelp reviews these people leave after a bad restaurant experience

 

[grandsons]

Can’t find weight for the 2.4-non hybrid and the 2.7 petrol engine or diesel, which I think would be interesting.

the 2,8l diesel weights 2'425– 2'594kg depending on trim. Max allowed weight with trailer is 6500-6650kg depending on trim.