Someone better tell the racing team that is building a Dakar rally LC250 in Japan that they picked the wrong Rays ALAP wheels!
High Offset Wheels (>=than 40mm)
- Thread starter the usarian
- Start date
@D-bag do you work for Ray's? Im not sure why you came in hot pretending like you know anything at all. Its one thing to be ignorant, but its another thing to be ignorant AND arrogant. If you're incapable of being neither, at least pick one or the other. The fact that you still think you have a point tells me you never understood the conversation we were having before you so rudely interjected.
No one is attacking your precious Ray's. As I said, I am currently importing a set of ZE40X's. They arrive in October.
I love it when people use the defense "BUT BUT how could you know better than the engineers at X, Y, and Z?" Have you ever met an engineer? If you had, you'd know they are human just like us. You would also know that they design things with multiple goals in mind, some of which are longevity, ease of maintenance, and cost. These things are not mutually exclusive and there is always a balance. But all that's beside the point because I haven't called out any design flaws; all I said is they are behind the times in terms of innovation.
I admit I don't know much about that Dakar LC250 you posted. However, if its used for racing then you can bet it uses a modified hub or at least hub-centric rings, and it also has longer studs. So what does that prove then? Nothing.
There is one simple truth you need to understand: If Ray's drilled their wheels for ET lugs, and the bore was 95.1mm, we would have a much easier time installing them correctly. If you refute anything, refute that because that is the only point I was trying to make before you came in with your childish sarcasm and "how could engineers be flawed" argument.
No one is attacking your precious Ray's. As I said, I am currently importing a set of ZE40X's. They arrive in October.
I love it when people use the defense "BUT BUT how could you know better than the engineers at X, Y, and Z?" Have you ever met an engineer? If you had, you'd know they are human just like us. You would also know that they design things with multiple goals in mind, some of which are longevity, ease of maintenance, and cost. These things are not mutually exclusive and there is always a balance. But all that's beside the point because I haven't called out any design flaws; all I said is they are behind the times in terms of innovation.
I admit I don't know much about that Dakar LC250 you posted. However, if its used for racing then you can bet it uses a modified hub or at least hub-centric rings, and it also has longer studs. So what does that prove then? Nothing.
There is one simple truth you need to understand: If Ray's drilled their wheels for ET lugs, and the bore was 95.1mm, we would have a much easier time installing them correctly. If you refute anything, refute that because that is the only point I was trying to make before you came in with your childish sarcasm and "how could engineers be flawed" argument.
“Hey Toyota rally team, some guy on the internet is very angry about your wheels.”
Hubcentric wheels don't support the weight of the vehicle by resting on the hubs, it's the clamping force of the lugnuts/studs that create many tons of pressure between the wheel and hub face.
Anyone have any data on load rating/capacity of the 18” OEM wheels (LCLC trim)? Torn between rays rated for 2,100 lbs (more positive offset) and RRWs rated for 2,600 lbs given the rear GAWR of 4,100… curious the OEM spec.
OEM's (in this case Toyota) don't usually publish the wheel load rating data, but it's very safe to assume that the OEM wheels exceed the GAWR by at least 20% (probably more) when equipped with OEM size tires.
The rule of thumb for selecting a wheel load rating is that you divide the heaviest axle rating by two and then multiple that number by 1.2 so that you exceed the required load rating by at least 20%.
4,100 lbs ÷ 2 = 2,050 lbs
2,050 lbs x 1.2 = 2,460 lbs
Ask the RRW guys what test standard and tire diameter they used for their 2,600lbs load rating. Not all test standards are equally as stringent.
For all of the wheels that we've produced in the last 12 or 13 years, we test to the SAE J2530 standard, which is tougher than JWL-T.
I know that years ago when I sold RAYS wheels they had established their own test standard that they called "JWL-R," and JWL-R was tougher than JWL or JWL-T. You're probably going to be fine with the RAYS wheels rated at 2,100lbs as long as you maintain a tire diameter that is the same or very close to the same as the OEM tire diameter.
Check with the retailer or manufacturer to be sure though. I can only speak on behalf of my company and our wheels.
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I went down the rabbit hole of wheel certifications, I'm not a wheel expert but I do have experience in manufacturing and sourcing, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
IMO the differences between SAE J2530 (SAE) and JWL/JWL-T aren't substantial and neither test is superior. For example, SAE may have more rotations on a test than JWL but the static load on the same test is lower than JWL. SAE can be self-certified by a manufacturer, but JWL certification can be faked by wheel brands not selling directly into Japan. I think the company behind your wheels is much more important that the test standard they choose.
A lot of smaller wheel companies are branding exercises, there's nothing wrong with that, but I would ask who actually makes their wheels vs what certification they have. It's more important that your wheel is made from a manufacturer that has quality/repeatable processes and good QA than focus on the certification. I'd have zero problems buying from a brand that uses YHI (they make Enkei, Konig, Oz & white label a ton of brands), but I would think twice about buying from a brand that's not transparent on who made their wheels.
For load ratings I would trust a known manufacturers load rating claim vs an unknown company. For example, my Volks have two load ratings stamped on the wheel P-800 KG and VIA-T955KG, Ray's hasn't got back to me on this but a distributor has replied saying Rays is very conservative with their load ratings and they stamp their wheels with the minimum load rating required to pass each certification, if the load rating exceeds your GAWR there will be no issues (again a big grain of salt required).
IMO the differences between SAE J2530 (SAE) and JWL/JWL-T aren't substantial and neither test is superior. For example, SAE may have more rotations on a test than JWL but the static load on the same test is lower than JWL. SAE can be self-certified by a manufacturer, but JWL certification can be faked by wheel brands not selling directly into Japan. I think the company behind your wheels is much more important that the test standard they choose.
A lot of smaller wheel companies are branding exercises, there's nothing wrong with that, but I would ask who actually makes their wheels vs what certification they have. It's more important that your wheel is made from a manufacturer that has quality/repeatable processes and good QA than focus on the certification. I'd have zero problems buying from a brand that uses YHI (they make Enkei, Konig, Oz & white label a ton of brands), but I would think twice about buying from a brand that's not transparent on who made their wheels.
For load ratings I would trust a known manufacturers load rating claim vs an unknown company. For example, my Volks have two load ratings stamped on the wheel P-800 KG and VIA-T955KG, Ray's hasn't got back to me on this but a distributor has replied saying Rays is very conservative with their load ratings and they stamp their wheels with the minimum load rating required to pass each certification, if the load rating exceeds your GAWR there will be no issues (again a big grain of salt required).
This, right here, is why I just stick to the stock wheels. Glad I got the 18"
I think most (if not all)of the major aftermarket brands made in Japan are relatively transparent on their manufacturing/certification/QC. Not so sure about wheels made in other Asian countries even if they’re Toyota OEM. I think even Rays has a new line of non Japanese made wheels lol.
Yeah most Japanese brands are pretty open about where they source their wheels either in house or third party, i.e. 4x4Engineering puts it on their product page that TAN-EI-SYA forges their Bradley Takumi line vs some "MIUSA" forged wheel brands claim it's done all in house.
Due to the scale that a factory needs to run in order to turn a profit and the limited headcount/resources of smaller wheel brands I'm thinking smaller brands that sell flow formed wheels may be sourcing from a handful of suppliers/middlemen who offer a menu of "good, better best" options. The supplier would likely RFP orders to their network of manufacturers based on the brands requirements.
Long winded way of saying it's super hard for consumers to determine if the quality of wheel is going to be good or bad regardless of certifications, a brand could have one batch of wheels made in factory A and the next order in factory B and the quality could be different between batches. This happens in other industries, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same for the wheel industry.
Ray's non Japan brand is hilarious ... MID
Very accurate and well stated.
Hey man, any update on high offset wheels from you guys?
Yes, in fact that's the reason I logged on.
I just happened to read the post from @jpto before I began working on my post. I'll make my post with the updates regarding our high offset LC250 wheels shortly (this afternoon).
Here’s an update on the new Landcruiser 250 wheel applications that we’ve been working on.
17" and 18" Fully forged wheel (wheel name TBD)
17x8.5” +34mm 6x139.7 Six Shooter Flow Formed
Here are a few 3D renderings of the 17x8.5” +34mm offset Six Shooter flow formed wheels:
17” Countersteer Type X Flow Formed (high offset version)
The 17” Countersteer Type X is the wheel that I expect will be the most popular for the Landcruiser. We more requests for the Countersteer Type X design than any other wheel we make, and we spent a lot of time perfecting the specs so that we could get the design, fitment, wheel weight and load rating just right.
17x8.5” +45 and 17x8.5” +48 are the width and offset combinations that we developed specifically for the Landcruiser 250. The estimated finished wheel weight for the 17x8.5” +48 6x139.7 is approximately 22.5lbs per wheel (this is the lightest weight option).
Please also keep in mind that this weight is for a wheel with a hub centric center bore (95.2mm) and a 2,500lbs load rating. Many of the aftermarket wheels currently available have much larger center bores (106mm ~ 112mm) and/or lighter duty load ratings. If we were to follow suit, we could reduce the weight (potentially below 22lbs per wheel), but we want this wheel to fit perfectly for you guys so that you aren’t dealing with the hassle of push-thru center caps or hub centric rings.
Once we have the physical samples back from testing, we’ll mount up a set of tires for some pictures and videos of the actual wheels. In the meantime, please take a look at the renderings below. We will also offer different center cap options from what is shown in the renderings, but the +48mm offset will require this center cap design.
Some of the different widths and offsets will also have slightly different face profiles, particularly around the center PCD (lug hole) area as noted in the chart.
This is an example of the “A” profile (very high positive offsets):
This is an example of the “B” profile (high positive offsets):
This is an example of the “C” profile (mid-high positive offsets):
The Six Shooters are available for pre-order now (eta February 2026), and as we get closer to full production for the new wheels (Countersteer Type X and yet to be named forged wheel) I will make a separate thread with more details. I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a "for sale" thread.
In the meantime I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and answering any questions about our new wheels or any other wheel related questions.
17" and 18" Fully forged wheel (wheel name TBD)
- 17x8.5” +40mm 6x139.7 and 18x8.5” +45mm 6x139.7
- Additional specs will also be available based on customer requests.
- Once we finalize the center cap design I will post more information along with 3D renderings.
- Target price range of $500 ~ $600 (+/-) per wheel (again, this is a fully forged wheel).
17x8.5” +34mm 6x139.7 Six Shooter Flow Formed
- Graphite gunmetal, matte black and matte bronze are in production now. ETA February 2026.
- Light weight (approximately 25.5lbs), extremely strong, flow formed wheel with excellent brake caliper clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
Here are a few 3D renderings of the 17x8.5” +34mm offset Six Shooter flow formed wheels:
17” Countersteer Type X Flow Formed (high offset version)
- Ultra lightweight, high strength, and excellent brake clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
The 17” Countersteer Type X is the wheel that I expect will be the most popular for the Landcruiser. We more requests for the Countersteer Type X design than any other wheel we make, and we spent a lot of time perfecting the specs so that we could get the design, fitment, wheel weight and load rating just right.
17x8.5” +45 and 17x8.5” +48 are the width and offset combinations that we developed specifically for the Landcruiser 250. The estimated finished wheel weight for the 17x8.5” +48 6x139.7 is approximately 22.5lbs per wheel (this is the lightest weight option).
Please also keep in mind that this weight is for a wheel with a hub centric center bore (95.2mm) and a 2,500lbs load rating. Many of the aftermarket wheels currently available have much larger center bores (106mm ~ 112mm) and/or lighter duty load ratings. If we were to follow suit, we could reduce the weight (potentially below 22lbs per wheel), but we want this wheel to fit perfectly for you guys so that you aren’t dealing with the hassle of push-thru center caps or hub centric rings.
Once we have the physical samples back from testing, we’ll mount up a set of tires for some pictures and videos of the actual wheels. In the meantime, please take a look at the renderings below. We will also offer different center cap options from what is shown in the renderings, but the +48mm offset will require this center cap design.
Some of the different widths and offsets will also have slightly different face profiles, particularly around the center PCD (lug hole) area as noted in the chart.
This is an example of the “A” profile (very high positive offsets):
This is an example of the “B” profile (high positive offsets):
This is an example of the “C” profile (mid-high positive offsets):
The Six Shooters are available for pre-order now (eta February 2026), and as we get closer to full production for the new wheels (Countersteer Type X and yet to be named forged wheel) I will make a separate thread with more details. I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a "for sale" thread.
In the meantime I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and answering any questions about our new wheels or any other wheel related questions.
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Would love to see the design for the 18 inch version and how all the different designs look on an actual LC250Here’s an update on the new Landcruiser 250 wheel applications that we’ve been working on.
17" and 18" Fully forged wheel (wheel name TBD)
- 17x8.5” +40mm 6x139.7 and 18x8.5” +45mm 6x139.7
- Additional specs will also be available based on customer requests.
- Once we finalize the center cap design I will post more information along with 3D renderings.
- Target price range of $500 ~ $600 (+/-) per wheel (again, this is a fully forged wheel).
17x8.5” +34mm 6x139.7 Six Shooter Flow Formed
- Graphite gunmetal, matte black and matte bronze are in production now. ETA February 2026.
- Light weight (approximately 25.5lbs), extremely strong, flow formed wheel with excellent brake caliper clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
Here are a few 3D renderings of the 17x8.5” +34mm offset Six Shooter flow formed wheels:
View attachment 51497
View attachment 51498
View attachment 51501
View attachment 51503
View attachment 51504
17” Countersteer Type X Flow Formed (high offset version)
This is the newest wheel that we specifically developed with the highest possible offsets in a 17" diameter. Our new mold has been completed, the first few wheels have been produced and they're undergoing final testing and certification as we speak. Testing/certification is expected to be finished within the next two weeks.
- Ultra lightweight, high strength, and excellent brake clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
The 17” Countersteer Type X is the wheel that I expect will be the most popular for the Landcruiser. We more requests for the Countersteer Type X design than any other wheel we make, and we spent a lot of time perfecting the specs so that we could get the design, fitment, wheel weight and load rating just right.
17x8.5” +45 and 17x8.5” +48 are the width and offset combinations that we developed specifically for the Landcruiser 250. The estimated finished wheel weight for the 17x8.5” +48 6x139.7 is approximately 22.5lbs per wheel (this is the lightest weight option).
Please also keep in mind that this weight is for a wheel with a hub centric center bore (95.2mm) and a 2,500lbs load rating. Many of the aftermarket wheels currently available have much larger center bores (106mm ~ 112mm) and/or lighter duty load ratings. If we were to follow suit, we could reduce the weight (potentially below 22lbs per wheel), but we want this wheel to fit perfectly for you guys so that you aren’t dealing with the hassle of push-thru center caps or hub centric rings.
Once we have the physical samples back from testing, we’ll mount up a set of tires for some pictures and videos of the actual wheels. In the meantime, please take a look at the renderings below. We will also offer different center cap options from what is shown in the renderings, but the +48mm offset will require this center cap design.
Some of the different widths and offsets will also have slightly different face profiles, particularly around the center PCD (lug hole) area as noted in the chart.
View attachment 51507
This is an example of the “A” profile (very high positive offsets):
View attachment 51509
View attachment 51510
This is an example of the “B” profile (high positive offsets):
View attachment 51513
View attachment 51514
This is an example of the “C” profile (mid-high positive offsets):
View attachment 51517
View attachment 51518
The Six Shooters are available for pre-order now (eta February 2026), and as we get closer to full production for the new wheels (Countersteer Type X and yet to be named forged wheel) I will make a separate thread with more details. I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a "for sale" thread.
In the meantime I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and answering any questions about our new wheels or any other wheel related questions.
We’ve got some 18-inch forged wheel designs too — the style’s a bit different though.
I’ll drop 2 pics so you can have a look.（The second image is a rendered reference.）
Thanks! I'll keep everyone posted on the progress of the 18" wheel. The new 18" wheel will be a different design from the Countersteer Type X, but we're also working on an 18" Countersteer Type X to be released later in 2026 (after the 17" version which is set to debut in the Spring).
As so as soon as we're able to get the first samples into our shop we'll mount tires on the wheels and photograph them on an LC250.
Cool design @plomor_mods . Very rugged and militaristic.
Hey Dustin!Here’s an update on the new Landcruiser 250 wheel applications that we’ve been working on.
17" and 18" Fully forged wheel (wheel name TBD)
- 17x8.5” +40mm 6x139.7 and 18x8.5” +45mm 6x139.7
- Additional specs will also be available based on customer requests.
- Once we finalize the center cap design I will post more information along with 3D renderings.
- Target price range of $500 ~ $600 (+/-) per wheel (again, this is a fully forged wheel).
17x8.5” +34mm 6x139.7 Six Shooter Flow Formed
- Graphite gunmetal, matte black and matte bronze are in production now. ETA February 2026.
- Light weight (approximately 25.5lbs), extremely strong, flow formed wheel with excellent brake caliper clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
Here are a few 3D renderings of the 17x8.5” +34mm offset Six Shooter flow formed wheels:
View attachment 51497
View attachment 51498
View attachment 51501
View attachment 51503
View attachment 51504
17” Countersteer Type X Flow Formed (high offset version)
This is the newest wheel that we specifically developed with the highest possible offsets in a 17" diameter. Our new mold has been completed, the first few wheels have been produced and they're undergoing final testing and certification as we speak. Testing/certification is expected to be finished within the next two weeks.
- Ultra lightweight, high strength, and excellent brake clearance
- Hub centric center bore
- Target price of $269 per wheel (estimated)
The 17” Countersteer Type X is the wheel that I expect will be the most popular for the Landcruiser. We more requests for the Countersteer Type X design than any other wheel we make, and we spent a lot of time perfecting the specs so that we could get the design, fitment, wheel weight and load rating just right.
17x8.5” +45 and 17x8.5” +48 are the width and offset combinations that we developed specifically for the Landcruiser 250. The estimated finished wheel weight for the 17x8.5” +48 6x139.7 is approximately 22.5lbs per wheel (this is the lightest weight option).
Please also keep in mind that this weight is for a wheel with a hub centric center bore (95.2mm) and a 2,500lbs load rating. Many of the aftermarket wheels currently available have much larger center bores (106mm ~ 112mm) and/or lighter duty load ratings. If we were to follow suit, we could reduce the weight (potentially below 22lbs per wheel), but we want this wheel to fit perfectly for you guys so that you aren’t dealing with the hassle of push-thru center caps or hub centric rings.
Once we have the physical samples back from testing, we’ll mount up a set of tires for some pictures and videos of the actual wheels. In the meantime, please take a look at the renderings below. We will also offer different center cap options from what is shown in the renderings, but the +48mm offset will require this center cap design.
Some of the different widths and offsets will also have slightly different face profiles, particularly around the center PCD (lug hole) area as noted in the chart.
View attachment 51507
This is an example of the “A” profile (very high positive offsets):
View attachment 51509
View attachment 51510
This is an example of the “B” profile (high positive offsets):
View attachment 51513
View attachment 51514
This is an example of the “C” profile (mid-high positive offsets):
View attachment 51517
View attachment 51518
The Six Shooters are available for pre-order now (eta February 2026), and as we get closer to full production for the new wheels (Countersteer Type X and yet to be named forged wheel) I will make a separate thread with more details. I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a "for sale" thread.
In the meantime I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and answering any questions about our new wheels or any other wheel related questions.
Love seeing the heightened level of engagement from the FN brand!
Curious to know if you have been able to establish the optimal offset in regard to tire clearance for the LC? I've read 40mm from some other manufacturers but if I am reading it right, FN is offering 35/42/45/48 offset options in the 17x8.5s? Which is great, but also slightly overwhelming
.
Thank you, and great question.Hey Dustin!
Love seeing the heightened level of engagement from the FN brand!
Curious to know if you have been able to establish the optimal offset in regard to tire clearance for the LC? I've read 40mm from some other manufacturers but if I am reading it right, FN is offering 35/42/45/48 offset options in the 17x8.5s? Which is great, but also slightly overwhelming
More than likely 17x8.5" +35 will be our "go to" fitment, since it works great on the 3rd Gen Sequoia / Tundra, 4th Gen Tacoma, 6th Gen 4Runner, GX550 and this offset also fits well on the Land Cruiser 250.
Our initial plan for this wheel was to offer an offset range with a maximum offset of +42mm. However, after we spent more time speaking with Land Cruiser 250 owners, reading through forum posts, and analyzing measurements, we felt it would be best if we could offer a +48mm offset option for you guys.
The optimal width/offset for the Land Cruiser 250 varies slightly depending on the tire size and whether it's a Land Cruiser or Land Cruiser 1958 Edition. I would generally agree that an 8.5" rim width with an offset somewhere in the range of +40 to +48mm is going to provide the optimal fitment. Whether we produce 17x8.5" in +40, +42, +45 or +48 will largely depend on the feedback we receive from Landcruiser 250 owners, but I will explain what I think is optimal below.
Land Cruiser 1958
For a 1958 Edition, 17x8.5" +48 is optimal. In most instances you're going to want the highest offset possible on the 1958 because of the narrower fenders. The 8.5" rim with is also very versatile as it works with tire widths ranging from 255mm (10.00") up to 315mm (12.50").
Optimal wheel/tire combination for a stock 1958 Edition would be the 17x8.5" +48 Countersteer Type X wheels with 255/75R17 (32x10.00R17) or 255/80R17 (33x10.00R17). This would provide a close to flush fit (wheels/tires won't stick out too far) on the 1958 with no rubbing and no detrimental effect on handling.
34x10.50R17 or 35x11.50R17 would also be good choices with a lift kit.
Land Cruiser
17x8.5" +48 offset is optimal with tire diameters in the range of 33" ~ 35" and tread widths of 10.50" ~ 11.50". This configuration allows for a full range of wheel travel within the wheel wells with the suspension compressed (even with larger tires). It also maintains a similar scrub radius to the OEM wheel/tire setup (no bump steer / no negative effects on handling).
An excellent setup on a Land Cruiser 250 would be to install the Countersteer Type X in 17x8.5" +48 with 285/70R17 (33x11.50R17) or 285/75R17 (34x11.50R17) tires. This setup has plenty of fender and suspension clearance, a slightly wider stance, and handling won't be affected negatively because the scrub radius is very similar to the OEM configuration.
35x11.50R17's would also work extremely well with a basic lift kit.
When would 17x8.5" +35 or +40mm offset be more appropriate for the Landcruiser 250?
Given that we'll also be offering this wheel in 17x8.5" +35mm, I wouldn't really consider 17x8.5" +40mm to be a necessary option. The difference in fitment between +35mm and +40mm just isn't very significant.
If you're looking for a wider, more aggressive stance than what the +48mm offset provides and/or you require more suspension clearance for wider tires (i.e. 315/70R17 or 35x12.50R17), then the 17x8.5" +35mm offset version would be perfect.
If you don't require the lower offset/backspacing for super wide tires, and/or you're looking for more of an OE+ fitment, then it would be best to skip over +40mm and go with 17x8.5" +48 to get the optimal LC250 fitment.
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I just noticed Black Rhino has the Bahari in 18” at 45mm offset
www.blackrhinowheels.com
BAHARI
We make the Black Rhino Bahari for enthusiasts seeking a versatile monoblock wheel built for off-roading. Initially envisioned as a forged concept for SEMA, the Bahari has evolved from its original concept into our newest ...
www.blackrhinowheels.com
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