Engine Death Wobble

[RGV Land Cruiser]

Read the manual


You should read the manual or if you can find someone that has had a 4wd before take a ride with you and engage the center differential on dry pavement. While you’re at it go through the drive thru at Wendy’s.

Please get it right. It’s Whataburger or nothing!

 

[NoMe cruiser]

Please get it right. It’s Whataburger or nothing!

I’m not familiar with Whataburger. Seriously though, it’s always a good idea to try out the different functions of a new 4wd and exercise them from time to time. However, I would suggest if you’re going to engage ANY differential I would recommend you try it on wet grass, sand, snow or at least a dirt road. Ultimately it is your vehicle to do as you wish.

 

[Vision83]

Like I said in the original post, service hasn’t been able to recreate it. I find it hard to believe but I’ll have to try at the next closest dealership.

Did mention to the case manager that folks on here are mentioning the contamination in the oil and one post I saw had it in the transmission fluid. She said she never heard of it. Not promising but just documenting and going through the motions. Hopefully this is resolved soon.

Service doesn't really want to try on this until there is a recall or TSB....

You can always request to show them in person... that is what I did(they claimed they could not reproduce as well). The master tech filed a TAS case back to Toyota. Than FTS took over.

In the other thread this is all documented by me and many others. Once they do find the issue they will claim it is a "normal characteristic" of the model "at this time"

Good luck... this has been a nightmare for many us going on 1 year.

 

[RGV Land Cruiser]

I’m not familiar with Whataburger. Seriously though, it’s always a good idea to try out the different functions of a new 4wd and exercise them from time to time. However, I would suggest if you’re going to engage ANY differential I would recommend you try it on wet grass, sand, snow or at least a dirt road. Ultimately it is your vehicle to do as you wish.

It’s the best in Texas. And yeah, each 4wd is different. My old Rubicon had lockers that I wouldn’t even touch unless I was offroad but my recent F150 would engage the 4wd when I put into sport mode on the highway. Each is different. Got this because I don’t rock crawl and mainly go on the beaches or ranch roads. Suited my needs and I just hope there’s a fix.

 

[Bad1975]

That wobble looks and sounds horrible! Looks like something is out of balance and/or the clutch on the Motor Generator is partially engaged to the drivetrain and engine when it shouldn't be. My first item would be verifying transmission fluid level this is from the first line of the procedure.

(c) The L580F hybrid vehicle transmission assembly requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
Using transmission fluid other than the above type may cause abnormal noise or vibration, or ultimately damage the transmission.

I'd also ask them to call in a specialist to watch that vibration and noise, is it a daily occurance upon cold start?

Might want to check the xfer case fluid level as well? Although if your engaging it on a high traction surface there will be binding especially if turning at the same time and both should be avoided.

 

[RGV Land Cruiser]

That wobble looks and sounds horrible! Looks like something is out of balance and/or the clutch on the Motor Generator is partially engaged to the drivetrain and engine when it shouldn't be. My first item would be verifying transmission fluid level this is from the first line of the procedure.

(c) The L580F hybrid vehicle transmission assembly requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
Using transmission fluid other than the above type may cause abnormal noise or vibration, or ultimately damage the transmission.

I'd also ask them to call in a specialist to watch that vibration and noise, is it a daily occurance upon cold start?

Might want to check the xfer case fluid level as well? Although if you’re engaging it on a high traction surface there will be binding especially if turning at the same time and both should be avoided.

Yeah, that tick happens every single cold start. Besides the chalkboard scratching brakes when backing up, these are every day occurrences. Will try another dealership and mention these to them.

 

[OverlandMethod]

Take it to The Car Care Nut!

 

[LunarCruiser]

I’m posting here in hopes that someone can help or point me in the right direction. I haven’t seen anything like this on the Facebook groups or this forum so here it goes.

I have a 2024 Land Cruiser LC Edition that has about 12,000 miles. Despite some of the things below, I really enjoy driving this LC. I have done a break-in oil change at 1000 miles, oil change at a little over 5000 miles, and an oil change around 11,000 miles. I have used nothing but premium fuel. My LC is also bone stock, and I have the intention of eventually lifting it and adding bigger tires. Already got the Sequoia BBS forged wheels. Also during the break-in period, I did not go higher than 2500 RPMs. Lastly, I have not taken this off-roading yet. Before I get roasted in the comments, I want these things fixed first, and do not want Toyota to say that I caused this.

With that said, before the engine death wobble at 8,000 miles the best MPG I have ever gotten was 19.5 MPG. Not bad, but not near the promised MPG. However, before this incident, the first thing I’ve had were two hard shifts on the highway to the point where it felt like someone rear ended me. I did notice on the second hard shift my RPMs went from under 2000 RPMs to over 3000 RPMs. Took to dealership, inspected, and no codes thrown. Additionally, I have that annoying tick for the first 10 to 15 minutes whenever I start my LC that sounds like an exhaust manifold leak I had on my GX 470. I have a video of that as well, but service “couldn’t replicate it” and no codes thrown. Furthermore, my center locking diff has seized three times when engaging. Have a video of it not engaging and light blinking while driving at idling speeds for a good 30 seconds. No codes for that either. Lastly, I have had hard shifts when slowing down to a stop between 30% to 40% of the time. No codes for that and told a possible software update will come out soon.

At around 8,000 miles, the video below happened. I started my LC after work and the whole LC shook. The floor, steering wheel, seat, etc. vibrated like the death wobble on my Jeep Wrangler. I checked around the LC and did not see any damage. After that I started recording the engine. From the video it looks whenever it goes from gas to hybrid mode, the whole engine and LC shakes. I thought for a second that the radiator hose was about to pop off with how badly it was shaking. This went on for a good 10 to 15 minutes. I showed the service department the video and they said that everything checks out, no codes, and that it is a “one time event.“ This happened again when I started my LC at around 10,000 miles, but it lasted for only five minutes.

Since this happened, there’s been two major things I’ve noticed. The first is that my MPG’s have been gradually decreasing. Keep in mind this is bone stock, but I am now averaging between 16.5 and 17 MPG‘s. This is upsetting because a major factor in getting this LC was for the 22 city / 25 highway MPG. My 2008 GX 470 that I traded averaged about 15 MPG so I feel I’m exactly where I started without any modifications whatsoever.

The second major thing is that my Max Battery Gauge dropped from a solid 4 to 6 bars down to 3 bars. Same route driven every day. I have noticed that sometimes I get back to 4 bars, but that is rare at this point. The reason I think this is significant is because when I get to stoplights or coasting to a stop, my LC does not go into hybrid mode like it used to. At least as consistently as it used to. If I had to measure, I would say now that about 30% of the time it goes into hybrid mode. Before this happened, the battery would be between 4 to 5 bars and it would consistently go into hybrid mode when coming to a stop or slow slowing down. I’m assuming this is what’s killing my MPG’s.

Fast forward to this past couple of weeks, I showed the service department the video again, I told him about the hybrid battery, and told them about my decreased MPG’s. They said there’s no codes, the Max Battery Gauge was for the 12V battery, and, despite my manual calculations at the pump, that my MPG‘s were actually higher. Rather than argue with them, I created a case with Toyota corporate and was informed that if the dealership could not recreate the issue, there was nothing that could be done. Hence, now I am here posting this in hopes that someone could help.

Again, the reason I’m posting this is I’m hoping someone has dealt with this before and knows what is happening or what to tell the service department specifically to look for. I know this is the first model, and I know there will be some growing pains with any first model, but my patience is almost at its end.

Thank y’all in advance for your responses and help.
View attachment 38956

Almost looks like the fan could be causing the shaking? The shaking is coming from the front it looks like.

 

[Mntngritz]

Center/F/R diffs should not be engaged while on non-slip surfaces. The T-case works the same as on your Wrangler. Many times the system will require slight wheel slip to engage fully, especially when @ medium+ speeds.

Good luck!

 

[Gen]

Did you have your oil analyzed by Blackstone? I've had the oil analyzed with each oil change. It'd be interesting to see what your analysis looks like. Here is my most recent analysis:
View attachment 38985

I was told to do the first oil change at 10K miles - can you explain why the early oil changes? and especially so close together? is there a perceived problem with the oil? or engine? Sorry, I am definitely no mechanic, but do keep my vehicles serviced regularly - so just wondering why the dealer and salesman told me 10K. Thank you!

 

[RideWithYanu]

I was told to do the first oil change at 10K miles - can you explain why the early oil changes? and especially so close together? is there a perceived problem with the oil? or engine? Sorry, I am definitely no mechanic, but do keep my vehicles serviced regularly - so just wondering why the dealer and salesman told me 10K. Thank you!

For people planning to own their vehicles long term, more frequent oil changes (regardless the vehicle) are recommended - especially in the first few thousand miles. See video on this topic from The Car Care Nut (you can find the link in these forums).

 

[Chadx]

Center/F/R diffs should not be engaged while on non-slip surfaces. The T-case works the same as on your Wrangler. Many times the system will require slight wheel slip to engage fully, especially when @ medium+ speeds.

Good luck!

To be more correct, one should not engaged center locker on non-slip and then driven through turns. There is zero harm in engaging center diff lock, or diff locks, or 4x4 on any vehicle if driven in a fairly straight line. Toyota even recommends engaging 4x4 on there part time 4x4 vehicles, regularly to keep the mechanisms exercised and front diff lubricated. That means engaging 4x4 and driving a few mile of slower highway or backroad is not only fine, but encouraged by the manufacturer and auto mechanics. Also no harm in engaging to function check or troubleshoot as long as you are doing no sharp turns.

That means no 90 degree turns or tight parking lot turns. That is what binds up the drivetrain because the wheels/tires need to rotate at different speeds and cover different distances on tight turns. The tighter the turn, the more things bind and the harder it is on parts. Cruising down a backroad or down a slow highway with center diff locked (or in 4x4 on a part time 4x4 vehicle) is perfectly fine. Turns, on non-slip surface, is the issue.

 

[Blue Bear]

I was told to do the first oil change at 10K miles - can you explain why the early oil changes? and especially so close together? is there a perceived problem with the oil? or engine? Sorry, I am definitely no mechanic, but do keep my vehicles serviced regularly - so just wondering why the dealer and salesman told me 10K. Thank you!

They told you 10K because they want to sell you a new LC in 5 years.

Lake Speed Jr. is a tribologist (the science and study of lubrication). Spend a little time watching his channel and you'll quickly learn why he recommends a break-in oil change at 500 miles.


If you watch enough engine tear downs on I Do Cars, then you'll understand why changing your oil more frequently than every 10K miles is a worthwhile investment. I can't tell you how many times Eric ends his videos talking about how the lack of oil changes killed an engine. If it's not the #1 killer of engines, it's certainly in the lead. Turbo engines are even more reliant on keeping the oil clean. Replacing a blown turbo is an expensive proposition on any engine.

If you do oil testing, you can monitor the health of the engine with each oil change. The oil testing will also give you a sense of how much life is left in the oil when you changed it. (The anti-wear additives and detergents decrease over time. The viscosity of the oil will change. And, the flash point also will decrease. In addition, if the oil is contaminated with silica, water, or anti-freeze, then that would point you to different issues to address.)

 

[GBee]

I’m posting here in hopes that someone can help or point me in the right direction. I haven’t seen anything like this on the Facebook groups or this forum so here it goes.

I have a 2024 Land Cruiser LC Edition that has about 12,000 miles. Despite some of the things below, I really enjoy driving this LC. I have done a break-in oil change at 1000 miles, oil change at a little over 5000 miles, and an oil change around 11,000 miles. I have used nothing but premium fuel. My LC is also bone stock, and I have the intention of eventually lifting it and adding bigger tires. Already got the Sequoia BBS forged wheels. Also during the break-in period, I did not go higher than 2500 RPMs. Lastly, I have not taken this off-roading yet. Before I get roasted in the comments, I want these things fixed first, and do not want Toyota to say that I caused this.

With that said, before the engine death wobble at 8,000 miles the best MPG I have ever gotten was 19.5 MPG. Not bad, but not near the promised MPG. However, before this incident, the first thing I’ve had were two hard shifts on the highway to the point where it felt like someone rear ended me. I did notice on the second hard shift my RPMs went from under 2000 RPMs to over 3000 RPMs. Took to dealership, inspected, and no codes thrown. Additionally, I have that annoying tick for the first 10 to 15 minutes whenever I start my LC that sounds like an exhaust manifold leak I had on my GX 470. I have a video of that as well, but service “couldn’t replicate it” and no codes thrown. Furthermore, my center locking diff has seized three times when engaging. Have a video of it not engaging and light blinking while driving at idling speeds for a good 30 seconds. No codes for that either. Lastly, I have had hard shifts when slowing down to a stop between 30% to 40% of the time. No codes for that and told a possible software update will come out soon.

At around 8,000 miles, the video below happened. I started my LC after work and the whole LC shook. The floor, steering wheel, seat, etc. vibrated like the death wobble on my Jeep Wrangler. I checked around the LC and did not see any damage. After that I started recording the engine. From the video it looks whenever it goes from gas to hybrid mode, the whole engine and LC shakes. I thought for a second that the radiator hose was about to pop off with how badly it was shaking. This went on for a good 10 to 15 minutes. I showed the service department the video and they said that everything checks out, no codes, and that it is a “one time event.“ This happened again when I started my LC at around 10,000 miles, but it lasted for only five minutes.

Since this happened, there’s been two major things I’ve noticed. The first is that my MPG’s have been gradually decreasing. Keep in mind this is bone stock, but I am now averaging between 16.5 and 17 MPG‘s. This is upsetting because a major factor in getting this LC was for the 22 city / 25 highway MPG. My 2008 GX 470 that I traded averaged about 15 MPG so I feel I’m exactly where I started without any modifications whatsoever.

The second major thing is that my Max Battery Gauge dropped from a solid 4 to 6 bars down to 3 bars. Same route driven every day. I have noticed that sometimes I get back to 4 bars, but that is rare at this point. The reason I think this is significant is because when I get to stoplights or coasting to a stop, my LC does not go into hybrid mode like it used to. At least as consistently as it used to. If I had to measure, I would say now that about 30% of the time it goes into hybrid mode. Before this happened, the battery would be between 4 to 5 bars and it would consistently go into hybrid mode when coming to a stop or slow slowing down. I’m assuming this is what’s killing my MPG’s.

Fast forward to this past couple of weeks, I showed the service department the video again, I told him about the hybrid battery, and told them about my decreased MPG’s. They said there’s no codes, the Max Battery Gauge was for the 12V battery, and, despite my manual calculations at the pump, that my MPG‘s were actually higher. Rather than argue with them, I created a case with Toyota corporate and was informed that if the dealership could not recreate the issue, there was nothing that could be done. Hence, now I am here posting this in hopes that someone could help.

Again, the reason I’m posting this is I’m hoping someone has dealt with this before and knows what is happening or what to tell the service department specifically to look for. I know this is the first model, and I know there will be some growing pains with any first model, but my patience is almost at its end.

Thank y’all in advance for your responses and help.
View attachment 38956

Question.... Do you still have warranty on your Landcruiser. If yes... I wouldnt touch anything. THis issue sound like a software problem when the CPU is trying to swith from gas engine to Hybrid, maybe. Hopefully nothing else. The engine management control unit is supossed to smoothly do the controlling. Obviously, is not.
Also. Try not to switch the differential lock sytem on a complete stop. Then set the shifter in neutral, and then proceed to the function you are going to select. That is the way the manual describes the process.
My Landcruiser 1958 has done a couple of rough shifting but nothing serious.
Good luck. Keep us posted. Let us know what happens next

 

[JCAV]

Way too soon to be having these issues. Ask for a replacement vehicle.

 

[Chadx]

Way too soon to be having these issues. Ask for a replacement vehicle.

If they can't even replicate it (and their are no codes), they can't diagnose it and fix it. And the only way to lemon law, etc. is if the vehicle is in the shop for X amount days and X amount of times for the same repair. Until they replicate and/or spend some time replacing parts or repairing, there is no leg to stand on for lemon law. This will probably draw out until it gets worse and is regularly repeatable or something catastrophic happens, unfortunately.

 

[JCAV]

I get where you are coming from but my suspicion is that they (techs) are not being honest in their evaluation. If one has video proof hopefully that will be good enough. Hate hearing about this since Toyota has such a great reputation for reliability.

 

[Pavman2473]

I’m not familiar with Whataburger. Seriously though, it’s always a good idea to try out the different functions of a new 4wd and exercise them from time to time. However, I would suggest if you’re going to engage ANY differential I would recommend you try it on wet grass, sand, snow or at least a dirt road. Ultimately it is your vehicle to do as you wish.

When you advise to use it on wet grass, sand, snow, etc. do you recommend waiting until the wheel starts spinning or does that matter. I will claim ignorance here so be easy on me. lol. What happens if you engage it on dry pavement?

 

[EOD Guy]

When you advise to use it on wet grass, sand, snow, etc. do you recommend waiting until the wheel starts spinning or does that matter. I will claim ignorance here so be easy on me. lol. What happens if you engage it on dry pavement?

You will not hurt a thing by engaging lockers on dry pavement, however you should make very wide arching turns. Don't make turns as you would in normal driving or the differentials will start to bind and make some awful popping sounds and could break parts if you keep moving forward. Additionally when you have 4WD engaged and lockers engaged, it might be hard to get the systems to disengage, normally backing up will help the system "unbind" and allow the solenoids move the locking mechs etc.....

 

[NoMe cruiser]

When you advise to use it on wet grass, sand, snow, etc. do you recommend waiting until the wheel starts spinning or does that matter. I will claim ignorance here so be easy on me. lol. What happens if you engage it on dry pavement?

EOD guy summed it up nicely. If I may add… Don’t … Don’t try to engage 4wd or any differential while the wheels are spinning/slipping.