Bad in snow? LC, Tires, or operator error?

[jbe2289]

I’m running Copper Discover Road + Trail AT that are 3 peak rated. Did some playing around in a snow covered abandoned parking lot this weekend. Had fresh snow on top, older snow, and likely ice on the bottom. If just driving normal it was good accelerating and turning. But playing around it easily went into controlled slides. The breaking was really solid as in no sliding or fishtailing. But as someone else mentioned it is heavy. So while I never felt out of control, the weight is a huge issue, it took an extremely long time to stop and to come out of a slide, it is like stopping or turning a boat. Really glad to have experimented because I see a lot of time needs to be accounted for in real world driving for emergency stops and normal stops in general in snow.

 

[LcAz]

The only benefit a 4x4 Suv will have is clearance in deeper snow, as mentioned above. Other than that compared to smaller vehicles it typically will perfome less well on icy roads. Many years living at altitude in colorado I wouldnt even take my Raptor or Older LC out of the garage if I was just heading down the hill on the main roads. Subaru Forrester AWD with snow tires was the best game in town by far, even when I had dedicated snow tires on the big 4x4. This LC isnt a handling machine on dry roads, I wouldnt anticipate it would be really fantastic on icy roads (In AZ now, havent been on icy roads in the 250 yet).

 

[jbe2289]

I’m running Copper Discover Road + Trail AT that are 3 peak rated. Did some playing around in a snow covered abandoned parking lot this weekend. Had fresh snow on top, older snow, and likely ice on the bottom. If just driving normal it was good accelerating and turning. But playing around it easily went into controlled slides. The breaking was really solid as in no sliding or fishtailing. But as someone else mentioned it is heavy. So while I never felt out of control, the weight is a huge issue, it took an extremely long time to stop and to come out of a slide, it is like stopping or turning a boat. Really glad to have experimented because I see a lot of time needs to be accounted for in real world driving for emergency stops and normal stops in general in snow.

And having come from a front wheel drive manual car on Cross Climate 2’s the only thing that stopped it was high centering, it was extremely responsive, and little additional stopping time was needed, the LC is definitely an adjustment. Way better than the Tacoma’s I’ve had though given the more even weight distribution prevents fishtails. But in my experience, nothing beats a Subaru with good tires - light weight, awd, and enough ground clearance.

 

[spdrcr05]

We just got a foot of snow in the Washington DC area last week. I swapped my stock tires on 20" wheels for 275/60/20 Pirelli Scorpion All-Terrain + (Scorpion All Terrain Plus tires price | Pirelli) a week after I got the truck in Sept. While I could get the back end to slide a little in an icy parking lot (and I was trying hard), I was very impressed with the handling in all other conditions. They handled the deep snow quite well and were very sure footed on all other various snow / slush / ice covered road and gravel roads I drive on the daily

 

[LCSpecial]

If running your tire pressure above 36, try lowering to 32/33psi, especially if you have e rated. Made a difference for me on my KO2s on icy roads

 

[Buckfever]

The KO3’s laugh at the snow They’re pretty good on the ice too. I think this is just a tire issue.

 

[Markarian421]

I have Michelin X-ice snow tires on mine right now. I drove and parked on some ice covered in a dusting of snow and didn’t even realize it was ice until I got out and almost fell down. As others have told me, the worst snow tire is far better than the best all terrain tire when it comes to snow and ice.

 

[NoMe cruiser]

This is what is under the snow on our logging roads. If I had AT’s I’d be staying home.

 

[jptruck]

I have Michelin X-ice snow tires on mine right now. I drove and parked on some ice covered in a dusting of snow and didn’t even realize it was ice until I got out and almost fell down. M. As others have told me, the worst snow tire is far better than the best all terrain tire when it comes to snow and ice.

Ditto this. I ran Nokians on my old Land Rover, and it was like driving on pavement on ice. The grip is unreal. I'd take a set of stock Michelins over AT tires in snow.

 

[Doggman1525]

I have Michelin X-ice snow tires on mine right now. I drove and parked on some ice covered in a dusting of snow and didn’t even realize it was ice until I got out and almost fell down. M. As others have told me, the worst snow tire is far better than the best all terrain tire when it comes to snow and ice.

x2 for the X-ice. They're not chunky and aren't going to plow through 3' drifts but on snow packed and icy-ish roads at low temps they do a good job of maintaining their grip. The stock ATs were ok in slushy conditions down to around freezing but below 25 degrees it was like driving on a set of frozen glazed donuts. Embarrassing when your truck slides sideways into the curb after coming to a stop at an intersection. No such issues with the snow tires...

 

[Altitude]

Yeah this is the likely reason. Since AT tires have wide and deep threads, less rubber is making contact with surface compared to snow or road tires. On slick and smooth surfaces like ice, this causes them to slip and slide. On ice, you would like as much rubber as possible to make contact with the surface, and many slits/cuts on the rubber to grab onto any type of imperfection or roughness on the surface.

This. I had Wildpeak AT3 on my Tahoe. Exactly my observations.

 

[Evergreen Daydreams]

x3 for X-Ice. I’m in the mountains every weekend and they handle like a tank

 

[RUN-8]

x2 for the X-ice. They're not chunky and aren't going to plow through 3' drifts but on snow packed and icy-ish roads at low temps they do a good job of maintaining their grip. The stock ATs were ok in slushy conditions down to around freezing but below 25 degrees it was like driving on a set of frozen glazed donuts. Embarrassing when your truck slides sideways into the curb after coming to a stop at an intersection. No such issues with the snow tires...

I’ve seen testing video of Michelin X-Ice’s on a front wheel drive economy shit box clawing through a good 12”-15” in Quebec on a testing course. I’ll bet with some momentum (after probing a drift to make sure it’s not solid ice) you could get a heavy 4X4 on snow tires through one. Just hit it judiciously, back up and hit it again. Rinse and repeat until you’re through. I’ve done this before while hunting national grass lands after a big windy snow.

 

[LCNorth]

Funny you should mention...

We've had the first 'real' winter here in a few years. It's Canada. We've seen 4 feet of snow in a weekend. Then it melted to slush. Then it re-froze to ice. Then it melted into water. Repeat the whole darn cycle.

I've driven in winter conditions with Land Rovers, Jeeps, pickups, CUV's, AWD sedans, RWD sedans on all-season tires, all-terrain tires and snow tires.

This year with the Land Cruiser I started out with AT4W's. Nope. Not the experience I was looking for once the winter weather arrived. Yes, they can get around, no you definitely won't get stuck. They're okay in snow and mediocre on slush and ice, which is consistent with most 3PMSF all-terrains. (The Goodyear Duratrac's were the best I had in the AT field between BFG, General, and Falken.) The Land Cruiser just didn't inspire confidence, which was disappointing.

So I ponied up and put on a set of winters. In the past I've had Blizzaks, X-Ice, Goodyears, Pirelli and Dunlop winter tires. All were good. The 'performance' winters they put on cars like my C-Class are not as good as a regular winter tire, but were still better than all the all-terrains. The only non-winter tire that comes close to pure winter performance is the Michelin Cross Climate 2's I have on a Mazda CX-30 AWD Turbo. (That is some fun in the snow.)

I put a set of Continental XTRM IceContact tires on the Land Cruiser. (Canadian specific model. Started with a Continental IceContact and incorporated feedback from Quebec tire distributors, apparently.) Now the Land Cruiser is EVERYTHING I WANTED IT TO BE in the winter. Absolutely unstoppable and sure-footed in anything you can throw at it. Deep snow. Slush. Ice. Hard pack snow. Salty, sandy frozen pavement. Wet. Can you break it loose? Sure you can, but you have to be driving completely recklessly. In the middle of a snowpocalypse snow squall off the Great Lakes, I experienced a little slipping when accelerating (but no sliding), so I turned on the centre diff lock. Perfection.

I'm sure once the OP puts on the Blizzak's they will be happy.

 

[jbe2289]

I’m running Copper Discover Road + Trail AT that are 3 peak rated. Did some playing around in a snow covered abandoned parking lot this weekend. Had fresh snow on top, older snow, and likely ice on the bottom. If just driving normal it was good accelerating and turning. But playing around it easily went into controlled slides. The breaking was really solid as in no sliding or fishtailing. But as someone else mentioned it is heavy. So while I never felt out of control, the weight is a huge issue, it took an extremely long time to stop and to come out of a slide, it is like stopping or turning a boat. Really glad to have experimented because I see a lot of time needs to be accounted for in real world driving for emergency stops and normal stops in general in snow.

Just wanted to follow up given real world driving experience in case anyone is considering the Cooper Discover Road+Trail. We got 7-8” of snow and I did about 60 miles driving in it, anywhere from 2-6” on road and a little off-road driving. Seriously impressed, the tires did incredible in real world driving. Going out there was a lot of cars struggling for traction and getting stuck and driving slow. Passed where could on highway. Coming back after dark the snow was ending and there were almost not other cars (or plow trucks) on the road. Was able to cruise at 50-60 MPH no problem and super smooth. The Land Cruiser and tires really impressed me. I locked the center differential the whole drive and used 4 low on slow steep back road and off-road.

 

[RideWithYanu]

Not to beat a dead horse (he said, picking up the stick to beat the horse), but on snow/ice-covered roads a lightweight AWD with snow tires is going to effortlessly outperform a heavy 4x4 with A/T tires all day long. Especially A/T tires that aren’t particularly good in the snow (despite their three peak rating).

 

[plfurman]

I normally always had dedicated snows but listened to a buddy stating that his KO2’s were just as good in the snow and I will never listen to another person try to tell me that snow tires are over rated, all seasons or AT are just as good ever again. Had the wild peaks on my 5th gen 4Runner and they were horrible. Got them sipped and they were better but still not great. Got dedicated snows and now have them for 1958 and the thing is a tank in NW Michigan. I likely would have been in a few ditches with the stock tires that came with it. You live in snow and ice… get dedicated snows, it will save your life or avoid catastrophe. Just get them off as temps get to 50° and store them off the ground on a pallet so they don’t dry rot in summer. Even cheaper snow tires are better than the best all season or AT’s.

 

[MtnLC]

I normally always had dedicated snows but listened to a buddy stating that his KO2’s were just as good in the snow and I will never listen to another person try to tell me that snow tires are over rated, all seasons or AT are just as good ever again. Had the wild peaks on my 5th gen 4Runner and they were horrible. Got them sipped and they were better but still not great. Got dedicated snows and now have them for 1958 and the thing is a tank in NW Michigan. I likely would have been in a few ditches with the stock tires that came with it. You live in snow and ice… get dedicated snows, it will save your life or avoid catastrophe. Just get them off as temps get to 50° and store them off the ground on a pallet so they don’t dry rot in summer. Even cheaper snow tires are better than the best all season or AT’s.

Yeah, I’ve run snow tires on lower weight cars every winter my whole life, but thought I would give the AT’s a shot. Nope - one sideways experience in the LC and I’m back to snow tires! Got the Blizzaks put on today.

 

[RUN-8]

So far the Michelin X-Ice Snow SUV in 265/70/R18 on our Land Cruiser are doing great. No deep snow yet, but the wife drove it around Sturgis, SD over the weekend to take our son to a wrestling meet while I was working. She said they had about 6” to 12” depending on drifts, and she is extremely happy with how the LC does in the snow with the X-Ice’s mounted.

I’ve only driven it on packed snow and ice so far, and the tires are a revelation for me. Never had dedicated snow tires before these.

 

[APIOQM]

Am I crazy for thinking a heavy vehicle can be preferable because it will more easy displace snow and maintain contact with the pavement? On glare ice I can see the heavier vehicle taking longer to stop, but here in Ontario where they religiously salt the roads, glare ice is pretty rare. I’m normally dealing with snow or slush that my lighter vehicle tends to float on top of at speed.