An interesting observation in ECO mode

[RideWithYanu]

I must be an instabro, because though I don’t care too much about efficiency, I’m glad the truck can merge onto the interstate without praying to my ancestors, and even more so glad to have that instant torque when needed off-road, instead of sliding back down the mountain.

My interest in the iforce max arose after researching it and understanding that it wasn’t trying to be an EV, it was trying to be more powerful.

Also I like driving fast. Doesn’t everyone?

 

[basicxj]

Well, if you bring up the traction battery as one of your gauges on display, you can see when the battery is actively being depleted and see its relative state of charge.

The three different modes seem to both utilize and charge the battery differently. I find Sport mode gets the traction battery charged more quickly for example, and I do find the engine cycling on and off- in stop & go traffic, after getting up to speed and coasting, then giving the Land Cruiser a gentle push with the accelerator when trying to maintain speed after coasting.

There is definitely a technique to using that traction battery without the engine cycling on- gentle on the go pedal is key. I am still learning the nuances.

 

[ultane]

It does little for MPG but it does wonders for slow offroad climbs and maneuvers. It's so much smoother and easier to control compared to my old FJs and pickup. I do wish it was a plug in hybrid with a battery the size of the RAV4's, but it's easier to shoehorn that in to a unibody than a body on frame vehicle. My other car is a plug in hybrid Volvo with a similar 40 mile battery only range, it uses virtually no gas driving locally, so I understand where you're coming from. (The RAV4 was also at the top of our list that time around.) Toyota is just doing something different in this case. It works great offroad. It only helps a little with the MPGs.

I wish that the battery was used more to get our trucks moving from stop lights, which is where a lot of fuel economy losses occur (or so I read a few decades ago).

 

[DubDub]

"...the battery was for power, not mpg. But I have a degree in electro-mechanical engineering and I did not fathom that the battery would sit idle unless you're at 70%+ throttle. It's there, and using it around town or when merging on the highway is simply a matter of 1's and 0's, just programming. Why Toyota would choose to let it sit idle is still beyond me."

I too have an E-mech (BSE w/ focus in Electromechanical systems). I'm confused what you mean here, and that may be IRT use case or that one of our vehicles is Anomolaic. I may be misinterpreting, but my indicators tell me that my LC is utilizing the battery in many situations (idling, coasting, steady speed w/ little or no incline, downhill cruise, and of course under heavy load). It's definitely not strictly under >69% throttle input. Then there's the MG vs IC motor vs combination side of the conversation... Genuinely curious is all.

I assumed a battery designed "for power" as apposed to mpg's meant that it was sized such that the vehicle wouldn't be able to run on just battery, and frequent depletion would mean it would spend more time charging and wouldn't always be able to help with mileage, but when you needed the power for short bursts it would be there. Sitting idle all the time never crossed my mind as it's just not logical.

All batteries are designed for power. The goal is torque. Agree that the LC's battery, like the other "iforcemax" offerings, is uniquely coupled to increase hp/torque of the IC engine vice being alternative to it. Therefore, the cases in which it does supplement are more rare and less traditional. Mine definitely does not sit idle as I almost always find myself using the IC engine or the battery exclusively. I don't have a lead foot though, which eradicates most of the combined IC/MG time... and it is right now that I am realizing that maybe you were referring to this combined usage all along?

 

[Hobbzz]

I must be an instabro, because though I don’t care too much about efficiency, I’m glad the truck can merge onto the interstate without praying to my ancestors, and even more so glad to have that instant torque when needed off-road, instead of sliding back down the mountain.

My interest in the iforce max arose after researching it and understanding that it wasn’t trying to be an EV, it was trying to be more powerful.

Also I like driving fast. Doesn’t everyone?

I love driving fast, which is why I used to have a 500hp sti and a 900whp single turbo supra. But when you have owned those kinds of cars, trying to get a 5500 pound brick purpose built for off road use to be fast, it'll just never be even close to the same. So I don't try.

But that's beside the point. ECO mode does use the battery a lot. Sport mode also uses the battery a lot, but it'll use the turbo much more too. My gripe is that when using a traction battery for power, low end power that you like on mountain trails, and power for acceleration for merging etc, and an increase in fuel efficiency are not mutually exclusive. It's just a matter of programming. The engineer in me just hates inefficiency.

 

[Hobbzz]

There is definitely a technique to using that traction battery without the engine cycling on- gentle on the go pedal is key. I am still learning the nuances.

I've only got 5k miles so I'm definitely still learning. Doesn't help that we live in the north and picked up ours in September when the weather is changing. Now that winter is here the battery patterns seem to change. It looks like, at least in eco, the battery doesn't get used at all until the engine is warmed up when driving in town.

 

[Hobbzz]

I too have an E-mech (BSE w/ focus in Electromechanical systems). I'm confused what you mean here, and that may be IRT use case or that one of our vehicles is Anomolaic. I may be misinterpreting, but my indicators tell me that my LC is utilizing the battery in many situations (idling, coasting, steady speed w/ little or no incline, downhill cruise, and of course under heavy load). It's definitely not strictly under >69% throttle input. Then there's the MG vs IC motor vs combination side of the conversation... Genuinely curious is all.

I don't really have a reason to think that ours is an anomaly. One weird thing that I've noticed is that when putzing around, let's say looking for a parking spot, I can HEAR the "ev" noise coming from the dedicated speaker signaling that the engine is operating at least in part on battery. But when I look at the output gauge (the "max" gauge), it shows no output. In both our previous Toyota hybrids, if you heard that noise, it was running on battery only. Admittedly, I need to look at the tach to see if the engine is running in these situations. That's the only oddity that I've noticed. This is all in eco mode.

All batteries are designed for power. The goal is torque. Agree that the LC's battery, like the other "iforcemax" offerings, is uniquely coupled to increase hp/torque of the IC engine vice being alternative to it. Therefore, the cases in which it does supplement are more rare and less traditional. Mine definitely does not sit idle as I almost always find myself using the IC engine or the battery exclusively. I don't have a lead foot though, which eradicates most of the combined IC/MG time... and it is right now that I am realizing that maybe you were referring to this combined usage all along?

I was mostly referring to the combination of battery and engine, yes. I would agree that usage would be less frequent and I wouldn't expect it to run on 100% battery very often. I do see the battery in ours being used exclusively in rare situations. Just no where near as much as it could be. Weather permitting (it's been below freezing for the last 3 weeks here), it will occasionally run on 100% battery when starting from a stop, but cut out at ~7-8mph. The charge level always remains the same, only missing 1-2 bars. It could easily run on 100% battery to 15-20mph, then cut to IC or a combo. According to the gauge, it never charges to 100%, which would be accurate but different from previous Toyota hybrids. The rav4's would show 100% charge, but of course that actually only equated to around 80-85%.

In the fall I could occasionally coast at around 35mph on battery only as long as there was no incline on the road. But not now that it's this cold. Everything I've explained is in eco mode for my situation.

I would imagine that geography plays a big role too, all other settings being equal. So eco mode in a small town with a stop every 100 yards could function differently than eco mode in a larger city with long stretches between stop lights/signs. When we drove our rav4 prime home from the dealership in NJ to WI, our best mileage in eco mode was through the hills in Pennsylvania. About 6-7 mpg better than through flat OH and IN.

 

[lar317]

I see the battery helping at low throttle around 1500 rpm’s and when taking off from a stop. The turbo rarely kicks in, My 2025 4 runner was not an I force max and the turbo was always kicking in. So the notion the battery only is in use at 70% throttle is not accurate.

 

[Jay’s 2025 Land Cruiser]

That's interesting. Early on I tried ECO mode and at least for highway driving I consistently got worse mileage than normal mode. After a couple tests like that I just quit ever using ECO.

This was my experience with using ECO.. no real gain in mpg over normal

 

[OverlandMethod]

In the last 6 months or so I've only used that knob for DAC speed control and had completely forgotten about eco and sport modes until this thread.