Watch this for final word on which fuel to use (Hint: Premium fuel matters)
- Thread starter TheMightyGoose
- Start date
No one, no random non-reliable youtube videos can convince / prove their points base on their own “believe”Not to beat a dead horseHey, I wasn't the one to create a brand new thread! But there's a big difference between cars that require premium fuel to operate and cars where it's recommended if you want optimal performance. No one can convince that there is some magical fairy dust in the Land Cruiser that is not in the same exact turbo engines in Tacoma or even the new 4Runner (which both take regular gas). This video seems to imply that turbo engines require premium fuel for longevity. They don't.
They “believe” that they somehow they think they better than Toyota who makes vehicle for them.
As a science / 34-year design engineer/ contract proposal guy, I am only convinced and followed the Toyota (with 100 billions dollars asset protection for their products from law) legally written statement sticker (100% stand behind legally under US law by Toyota) pop in front of consumers every single time they open fuel door to pump gas. ( don’t say…I don’t see it…I don’t know about it)
However, people has 100% making their own choice for any reasons. You own your vehicle and your decision. It is perfect Rights
But trying to prove or argue that Toyota is wrong or put something legally in front of consumer (just right on the gas door) is for nothing / useless. I would say it is flat wrong.
Really don’t want to put “premium gas” into this “fire”, but I want to be clear and help for others who are still “confusing” in their choices. For others who already made their own choice, just be cool and happy with your choices, but please don’t convince things different from Toyota!
I tell you. It was that darn sticker on the global rollout of Land Cruiser that has caused all this angst between owners. If they would have just left that sticker off their US cars like they did for Tacoma and 4Runner, we wouldn't be having this conversation
The LC US version is much different from Australia, Europe, Middle East.I tell you. It was that darn sticker on the global rollout of Land Cruiser that has caused all this angst between owners. If they would have just left that sticker off their US cars like they did for Tacoma and 4Runner, we wouldn't be having this conversation
Why? Because different law and reliable requirements.
People naively “believe”/convince” themself that Giant Toyota “forgot” to leave their “legal warning statement” there. 2024 and now 2025.
Perfect legal written form is no more and no less words.
I would be curious to hear from the powertrain engineers at Toyota that designed this engine and or those who integrated it into the LC because they are probably the only ones who truly know if Premium fuel is required or just suggested and the reasoning behind it.
At some level, it is curious that the same engine (T24A-FTS) in other vehicles does not carry this requirement, so in my mind (of a lay person and not an engineer) there is either something about the implementation of the T24A-FTS in the LC or there is some other engineering reason for the requirement, I just cannot see a scenario that the attorneys required it for some reason to CYA Toyota NA.
Either way, I will put Premium in my LC just as I put Premium in my other cars which require it.
At some level, it is curious that the same engine (T24A-FTS) in other vehicles does not carry this requirement, so in my mind (of a lay person and not an engineer) there is either something about the implementation of the T24A-FTS in the LC or there is some other engineering reason for the requirement, I just cannot see a scenario that the attorneys required it for some reason to CYA Toyota NA.
Either way, I will put Premium in my LC just as I put Premium in my other cars which require it.
I think it is all about gas mileage ! Toyota is concerned the the poor mileage ratings for the Land Cruiser will affect sales so they tuned the engine to take advantage of the better mileage achieved with premium fuel . And that's all there is to it!
Only > recommend > prefer > suggest
• Only = no other way / one = required = 100%
• Recommend = 80-90%
• prefer = 60% or above
• suggest = 50%
Toyota: “ Premium Unleaded Fuel ONLY”
—> Consumers: I have rights to believe and do whatever I want. Totally correct!
—> Toyota: I am not taking any responsibility because you do not follow Toyota direction “ Premium Unleaded Fuel ONLY”. It’s also totally correct!
I know those legal things. When I “upgraded” all OEM suspension to King shocks system, I clearly knew and accepted the denied suspension warranty and that is my own decision. I cannot blame on Toyota…
Also, I did wire my winch to take power from battery, now I did clearly know I will have 100% responsibility for it if something happened because of it.
As consumer rights, I can do whatever I want and must take responsibility for what I do.
So premium or not premium fuel is our choices (100% correct and entitled as customer rights), but one thing I strong disagree that we try to explain all kinds of things per our own “believe” and saying…that is what Toyota “means”
Hope that my “2-cent” explanation is clear out the so-called “super confusing” between premium or not premium fuel”.
Love and respect all of you here.
I dedicate a lot of my trust and time to our beautiful community here. All I like to help people more than fight or undermine them!
Happy LC to all
Keep growing our community with all fair and constructive comments. Glad to be part of all you here. I had been learned from all of you every day in this forum!
Peace!
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The owners manual does not say "ONLY" premium fuel, it says:
"You must only use unleaded gasoline.
Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher required for optimum engine performance and fuel economy.
At minimum, the gasoline you use should meet the specifications of ASTM D4814 in the U.S.A.."
Saying that in the manual that opens a strong legal argument that 91 or higher is not required for warranty.
"You must only use unleaded gasoline.
Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher required for optimum engine performance and fuel economy.
At minimum, the gasoline you use should meet the specifications of ASTM D4814 in the U.S.A.."
Saying that in the manual that opens a strong legal argument that 91 or higher is not required for warranty.
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Premium fuel does give better gas mileage. It is a fact. Automakers have even asked to get rid of 87 octane as an option so they can tune their cars specifically for premium fuel because it helps them get closer to the federal fuel economy requirements. (No longer having regular on the market would also bring the cost of premium down because they'd only have one level of fuel on the market and there would be less opportunistic pricing that we are currently seeing on premium fuel.)
IMO, avoiding/minimizing CAFE fines is the whole purpose of the premium requirement in the Land Cruiser.
1) CAFE regulations and the subsequent fines impact the cost of all vehicles. These are paid by Toyota. Given the choice of paying the fines or recommending owners use Premium, they'll do the latter... especially once we get to point 2.
2) Land Cruiser buyers tend to be more well off than 4Runner or Tacoma buyers; they are less likely to care about a 20% increase in fuel cost. Premium requirement in the 4Runner or Taco might push more price sensitive buyers toward competition where the typical LC buyer is more likely to be "it costs what it costs".
3) The 1958 edition LC exists with smaller, narrower tires and more offset wheels > this helps fuel economy rating. There are workarounds where Toyota can officially rate the LC grade as the same fuel economy rating -- for CAFE -- as the 1958 because they are "similar enough". Back to back, the 1958 will be more efficient than the LC grade. Better aero, lighter chassis weight, lower rolling resistance, lighter wheels/tires... but the 1958 is the trim taking the test. It is also volume weighted and relative to dimensions, so the 4Runner fine situation might be different than Toyota's.
4) Toyota doesn't have a financial responsibility regarding what you do to the vehicle, but they are, however, responsible for what they recommend. They have to recommend the fuel that was used to achieve the rating used for their CAFE calculation.
5) The full time 4WD Limited hybrid and Platinum 4Runners are almost identical in powertrain and don't achieve the same highway number as the LC's official rating.
Now... we don't have the data or official word from Toyota that this is the case. But, my experience in the industry and how federalization works for vehicles makes my theory very believable.
Also, having experience with modern engine calibration, the ECUs are going to do everything possible to keep you from harming the engine. They will pull time like crazy before they let the engine continuously knock. If my LC were living its life towing ike's gauntlet, I'd probably err on the side of caution and run 93. If I lived in an area with notoriously bad fuel quality, I'd spend the money. But just driving it around like a normal vehicle, I'd be comfortable running 87 based on the evidence that I see.
IMO, avoiding/minimizing CAFE fines is the whole purpose of the premium requirement in the Land Cruiser.
1) CAFE regulations and the subsequent fines impact the cost of all vehicles. These are paid by Toyota. Given the choice of paying the fines or recommending owners use Premium, they'll do the latter... especially once we get to point 2.
2) Land Cruiser buyers tend to be more well off than 4Runner or Tacoma buyers; they are less likely to care about a 20% increase in fuel cost. Premium requirement in the 4Runner or Taco might push more price sensitive buyers toward competition where the typical LC buyer is more likely to be "it costs what it costs".
3) The 1958 edition LC exists with smaller, narrower tires and more offset wheels > this helps fuel economy rating. There are workarounds where Toyota can officially rate the LC grade as the same fuel economy rating -- for CAFE -- as the 1958 because they are "similar enough". Back to back, the 1958 will be more efficient than the LC grade. Better aero, lighter chassis weight, lower rolling resistance, lighter wheels/tires... but the 1958 is the trim taking the test. It is also volume weighted and relative to dimensions, so the 4Runner fine situation might be different than Toyota's.
4) Toyota doesn't have a financial responsibility regarding what you do to the vehicle, but they are, however, responsible for what they recommend. They have to recommend the fuel that was used to achieve the rating used for their CAFE calculation.
5) The full time 4WD Limited hybrid and Platinum 4Runners are almost identical in powertrain and don't achieve the same highway number as the LC's official rating.
Now... we don't have the data or official word from Toyota that this is the case. But, my experience in the industry and how federalization works for vehicles makes my theory very believable.
Also, having experience with modern engine calibration, the ECUs are going to do everything possible to keep you from harming the engine. They will pull time like crazy before they let the engine continuously knock. If my LC were living its life towing ike's gauntlet, I'd probably err on the side of caution and run 93. If I lived in an area with notoriously bad fuel quality, I'd spend the money. But just driving it around like a normal vehicle, I'd be comfortable running 87 based on the evidence that I see.
1. The manual does not say "only." It says premium preferred for optimal performance. And at minimum, use octane 87.
2. It would be nice to hear a specific LC engineer on this. But we have heard from Toyota lead engineer Sheldon Brown who said regular gas will not hurt your engine in any way or affect longevity and that premium was preferred because LC has always been premium and they wanted one global standard for the global roll out. It also helped efficiency and performance numbers.
3. I'm 7k miles in using regular gas and loving it. I will keep you posted if I ever break down on the side of the road if it was that much of an issue, I'm sure we would also be hearing about it by now. If I had to guess, I would say there are plenty of LC owners that aren't putting in premium fuel every single time.
2. It would be nice to hear a specific LC engineer on this. But we have heard from Toyota lead engineer Sheldon Brown who said regular gas will not hurt your engine in any way or affect longevity and that premium was preferred because LC has always been premium and they wanted one global standard for the global roll out. It also helped efficiency and performance numbers.
3. I'm 7k miles in using regular gas and loving it. I will keep you posted if I ever break down on the side of the road
if it was that much of an issue, I'm sure we would also be hearing about it by now. If I had to guess, I would say there are plenty of LC owners that aren't putting in premium fuel every single time.
It’s says Premium required for optimal engine performance.1. The manual does not say "only." It says premium preferred for optimal performance. And at minimum, use octane 87.
2. It would be nice to hear a specific LC engineer on this. But we have heard from Toyota lead engineer Sheldon Brown who said regular gas will not hurt your engine in any way or affect longevity and that premium was preferred because LC has always been premium and they wanted one global standard for the global roll out. It also helped efficiency and performance numbers.
3. I'm 7k miles in using regular gas and loving it. I will keep you posted if I ever break down on the side of the road
I don’t really understand everyone wanting Toyota engineers to tell them which fuel to use. They already have, via the owners manual. You must use premium fuel if you want the engine to run as designed (that’s what “optimum” means in this context). The engineers have spoken. Believe them or don’t. Save a couple bucks by not using premium if you don’t want to - but Toyota’s position is abundantly clear on the topic.
Attachments
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
By the way, there are types of knock that cannot be prevented by retarding ignition timing. Most common example is when the engine is under heavy load at low RPM. There are alternatives, like alternating valve timing or air/fuel mixture, but some of these can cause catalyst, valve or injector damage over time.
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Surely, you do know that part of the manual you attached is the exact same wording in most Toyota cars that take regular gas, right? It's lawyer speak and not applicable to LC specifically.
The previous page of the manual, meanwhile, is unique and specific to LC and says all you need at a minimum is US fuel standards (87) but premium is preferred for optimal performance.
The previous page of the manual, meanwhile, is unique and specific to LC and says all you need at a minimum is US fuel standards (87) but premium is preferred for optimal performance.
Here is the same exact manual wording for a Toyota Highlander that takes regular gas. See the bullet points under Notice on Fuel Quality:
www.toyota.com
"Using unleaded gasoline with an octane number or rating lower than the level previously stated may cause persistent heavy knocking.At worst, this may lead to engine damage and will void the vehicle warranty."
Article
"Using unleaded gasoline with an octane number or rating lower than the level previously stated may cause persistent heavy knocking.At worst, this may lead to engine damage and will void the vehicle warranty."
I am using Premium fuel and have no problem continuing to do so, but having a Toyota Powertrain Engineer explain the reasoning and the science behind it could be very interesting, nothing more, nothing less.
Over on one Ford F-150 forum, an Electrical Engineer with Ford was/is an active poster and he explained the reasoning for many engineering choices that were made with the vehicle, it is just interesting to get a little "inside baseball".
Mental gymnastics trying to justify this is mind boggling. Why should the manual have different wording? If manual previously stated 87, use 87 at minimum, if it previously stated 91, use 91 at minimum. No where on the manual there is a reference to 87 (ASTM D4814 doesn’t not specify octane numbers). Use whatever fuel you want, but saying manual specifies 87 is major disinformation.Here is the same exact manual wording for a Toyota Highlander that takes regular gas. See the bullet points under Notice on Fuel Quality:
Article
"Using unleaded gasoline with an octane number or rating lower than the level previously stated may cause persistent heavy knocking.At worst, this may lead to engine damage and will void the vehicle warranty."
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Agreed it would be very interesting from an educational perspective.
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