Paddle Shifters?

[Trailman]

Do any of the US spec Land Cruisers come with paddle shifters? I know certain trims in other countries show them but so far I have not seen them on the US spec. Does anyone know if these could be added easily or would that require a different wiring harness? Seems like a strange item to leave off the US model and include in Canadian models. @tundras could you lookup in TIS to see if there is anything that would tell us if these could be added?

 

[Captain Trips]

Do any of the US spec Land Cruisers come with paddle shifters? I know certain trims in other countries show them but so far I have not seen them on the US spec. Does anyone know if these could be added easily or would that require a different wiring harness? Seems like a strange item to leave off the US model and include in Canadian models. @tundras could you lookup in TIS to see if there is anything that would tell us if these could be added?

No and I imagine they would be pretty expensive and difficult to add

 

[Trailman]

I've seen other vehicles where if they are specced in other markets for the same vehicle it's not that difficult to add them. You can always add an aftermarket set. I like them when driving in the mountains for engine breaking which is the only time I really use them. I think I remember reading a review where someone said the hybrid system on the LC doesn't let the engine break the same as traditional vehicles do. Anyone with experience driving their LC in the mountains want to chime in on how effective engine breaking is and if they think paddle shifters would be nice?

 

[wedemmoez]

Looking at the diagrams it’s going to be extremely difficult to add them. Just based on the parts location it would involve buying the paddles, steering column cover, and associated control modules from Canada, and then taking apart the entire dash to install.

Is there a reason you specifically want paddles and can’t use the gear shifter to manually downshift?

I’ve towed vehicles over mountains in my Tundra, and had to use the gear lever to downshift, I don’t really see any benefit from paddles other than you don’t have to take your hand off the wheel.

 

[Trailman]

Looking at the diagrams it’s going to be extremely difficult to add them. Just based on the parts location it would involve buying the paddles, steering column cover, and associated control modules from Canada, and then taking apart the entire dash to install.

Is there a reason you specifically want paddles and can’t use the gear shifter to manually downshift?

I’ve towed vehicles over mountains in my Tundra, and had to use the gear lever to downshift, I don’t really see any benefit from paddles other than you don’t have to take your hand off the wheel.

Thanks for checking. I just like the convenience of keeping hands on the wheel. Manually using the gear shifter isn’t a big deal, it’s just a preference after driving vehicles with paddle shifters. Sounds like it’s not worth it in this instance. Wonder why Toyota left them off in the US other than to save costs and maximize profit…

 

[wedemmoez]

Thanks for checking. I just like the convenience of keeping hands on the wheel. Manually using the gear shifter isn’t a big deal, it’s just a preference after driving vehicles with paddle shifters. Sounds like it’s not worth it in this instance. Wonder why Toyota left them off in the US other than to save costs and maximize profit…

If anything it increases cost because now they have to have additional manufacturing processes, maintain parts and manufacturing for multiple control units, and support those different versions globally.

 

[Trailman]

You would think that would be the case. With their impressive manufacturing facilities and parts delivery system and the ability to run different vehicles on the same lines maybe they have it running so efficiently it does save them some money? The US is a bigger market than Canada so I could see the savings adding up

 

[wedemmoez]

You would think that would be the case. With their impressive manufacturing facilities and parts delivery system and the ability to run different vehicles on the same lines maybe they have it running so efficiently it does save them some money? The US is a bigger market than Canada so I could see the savings adding up

Speaking as someone who has designed some of the parts, it would take a pretty significant difference in sales to make up for the cost of having multiple design versions, crash tests, regulatory certification, and maintaining support for the different versions. On a Camry that might make sense but in a lower volume model like the Land Cruiser it adds up to a significant cost.

 

[Fort7365]

It's likely deconfliction with Lexus in the US. Some trims of the GX 550 have paddle shifters.

 

[Trailman]

Speaking as someone who has designed some of the parts, it would take a pretty significant difference in sales to make up for the cost of having multiple design versions, crash tests, regulatory certification, and maintaining support for the different versions. On a Camry that might make sense but in a lower volume model like the Land Cruiser it adds up to a significant cost.

You’re definitely more of an expert than I am so I’ll take your word and leave it at that. Just seems like an odd thing to give to Canadian market and not the US

 

[Captain Trips]

You’re definitely more of an expert than I am so I’ll take your word and leave it at that. Just seems like an odd thing to give to Canadian market and not the US

It’s just as strange to give Europe, a moonroof and the US and Canada just a sunroof. These decisions must make sense to someone, just not us.

 

[BCBelstaff]

The Canadian Premium pack LC grade includes paddle shifters

Ken

 

[OKLA Cruiser]

I've seen other vehicles where if they are specced in other markets for the same vehicle it's not that difficult to add them. You can always add an aftermarket set. I like them when driving in the mountains for engine breaking which is the only time I really use them. I think I remember reading a review where someone said the hybrid system on the LC doesn't let the engine break the same as traditional vehicles do. Anyone with experience driving their LC in the mountains want to chime in on how effective engine breaking is and if they think paddle shifters would be nice?

I have found the engine breaking to not be very strong. I was hoping that it would be since it is charging the battery at that time. I was dropping down a pretty steep highway down grade.

 

[Trailman]

Found this to be an interesting post on a Highlander forum regarding regenerative breaking and downhill behavior of Toyota hybrid vehicles:

“So here is my experience from my wife's Lexus NX 350h, which basically has the same ~240hp combined powertrain as the Highlander (RAV4 and Camry have the smaller transmission / battery rated ~210 hp combined). I would expect the Highlander to behave very similarly.

While driving in the city, the computer keeps the battery around 75-80% charged to maximize EV mode. It uses regenerative braking to top up the battery, and only uses the ICE to accelerate and top up the battery when the charge drops below 75%. The Lexus reports % of EV mode after each driving cycle, and it typically is between 60-70% in pure city driving (meaning that the ICE was on only 30-40% of the time).

While on highway, the computer maintains the battery charge around 50% and relies mostly on the ICE to move the vehicle. When going up, it's normal to see the battery charge drop to as low as 20%. The "empty space" in the battery is used to allow regenerative braking on long downhill slopes. It doesn't take much to take the battery charge from 50 to 100% while going downhill - only about 1-2 miles of steady descent at 75-80 mph is enough. Once the battery is ~90% full, the computer turns on the ICE and keeps the rpms around 3,000 (or more) to provide "traditional" engine braking as there no more space in the battery to absorb electricity from regenerative braking, and to prevent riding the brakes.

The good thing is that you don't have to (nor can) do anything about it. The computer just picks the most effective / economic mode based on driving conditions and what it thinks are the driver's intentions. As any computer algorithm it isn't perfect, but it adapts fast. It can't predict when you will exit the interstate and start driving on city streets or vice versa, but it takes only a couple of miles to change from "city" to "highway" mode as the battery capacity is pretty small.

The part that has always been the "Achilles heel" of all hybrid Toyotas is the transition from regenerative to hydraulic braking. Sometimes it's smooth, sometimes it's very jerky. You may suddenly feel that you go from soft, gentle braking to a hard stop, or you may feel as if you lost the brakes all together for a split second when transitioning from one more to another. This has been an ongoing subject on this and other forums, as well as complaints to the NHTSA. It happens in all Toyota hybrid vehicles. It is disconcerting but luckily our human brains are trainable and you just learn to live with this issue. But it's a shame that Toyota hasn't improved on it, considering that some other manufacturers (for example Honda) do a much better job in that respect.”

 

[Island Time]

We are new to the LC 1958, coming from BMWs with paddle shifters, and must admit to find the 2.4 turbo with mild hybrid to be, so weak and always in the wrong gear. Our BMW convertible has a 2.0 turbo, that is very alive and rev happy, yet the Toyota 2.4 turbo that on paper has double power/ torque just seems to be too weak for the LC. Gearbox always goes to overdrive 1200 rpm or shuts down on the highway, making acceleration impossible because turbo is not spoiling. Hope dealer can fix shutdown and get gearbox to kick back and spool the turbo that otherwise acts more or less as a paper weight. When letting engine rev using manual shift, mileage is 9.5 litre per 100 km mixed use, automatic mileage is 11.5 liter per 100 km and painful because the engine keep stalling and shutting down. Hard work to drive this thing, not what we signed up for. Makes my old ‘97 4Runner with 2.7 four a more attractive drive, compared to LC with hybrid and turbo and endless horsepower and torque on paper, that is. Hope things get better…

 

[RUN-8]

I've seen other vehicles where if they are specced in other markets for the same vehicle it's not that difficult to add them. You can always add an aftermarket set. I like them when driving in the mountains for engine breaking which is the only time I really use them. I think I remember reading a review where someone said the hybrid system on the LC doesn't let the engine break the same as traditional vehicles do. Anyone with experience driving their LC in the mountains want to chime in on how effective engine breaking is and if they think paddle shifters would be nice?

My experiences so far using the gear box to manually shift down for engine braking on steep prolonged grades has been pretty negative. A 2.4L I4 doesn’t have enough displacement to slow down or even effectively retard a 5300lb truck.

 

[RUN-8]

We are new to the LC 1958, coming from BMWs with paddle shifters, and must admit to find the 2.4 turbo with mild hybrid to be, so weak and always in the wrong gear. Our BMW convertible has a 2.0 turbo, that is very alive and rev happy, yet the Toyota 2.4 turbo that on paper has double power/ torque just seems to be too weak for the LC. Gearbox always goes to overdrive 1200 rpm or shuts down on the highway, making acceleration impossible because turbo is not spoiling. Hope dealer can fix shutdown and get gearbox to kick back and spool the turbo that otherwise acts more or less as a paper weight. When letting engine rev using manual shift, mileage is 9.5 litre per 100 km mixed use, automatic mileage is 11.5 liter per 100 km and painful because the engine keep stalling and shutting down. Hard work to drive this thing, not what we signed up for. Makes my old ‘97 4Runner with 2.7 four a more attractive drive, compared to LC with hybrid and turbo and endless horsepower and torque on paper, that is. Hope things get better…

You do realize your BMW convertible weighs probably close to 1 ton less than the Land Cruiser, and has much better aerodynamics and less frontal area right? Even down on power output, the power to weight ratio is in a different league.

That said I think Toyota left a lot of power on the table with the T24A-FTS. A tuner might hopefully wake it up and allow a considerable increase in power output.

 

[cvx5832LC]

We are new to the LC 1958, coming from BMWs with paddle shifters, and must admit to find the 2.4 turbo with mild hybrid to be, so weak and always in the wrong gear. Our BMW convertible has a 2.0 turbo, that is very alive and rev happy, yet the Toyota 2.4 turbo that on paper has double power/ torque just seems to be too weak for the LC. Gearbox always goes to overdrive 1200 rpm or shuts down on the highway, making acceleration impossible because turbo is not spoiling. Hope dealer can fix shutdown and get gearbox to kick back and spool the turbo that otherwise acts more or less as a paper weight. When letting engine rev using manual shift, mileage is 9.5 litre per 100 km mixed use, automatic mileage is 11.5 liter per 100 km and painful because the engine keep stalling and shutting down. Hard work to drive this thing, not what we signed up for. Makes my old ‘97 4Runner with 2.7 four a more attractive drive, compared to LC with hybrid and turbo and endless horsepower and torque on paper, that is. Hope things get better…

That convertible you’re comparing to 5,000lbs? Rhetorical question. It’s a truck.

 

[rjmh]

. Our BMW convertible has a 2.0 turbo, that is very alive and rev happy, yet the Toyota 2.4 turbo that on paper has double power/ torque just seems to be too weak for the LC.

Our 1958 is our first Toyota after many German cars from all five brands. There is no comparison to be made. There are designed with different desired outcomes. This shouldn’t be a surprise.

Our last SUV was a cayenne turbo. The Toyota delivers a different experience. Not worse not better just different. The LC doesn’t like being hustled and reminds me more of my Dads old LTDs comfortable and easy to drive.

The German brands have certainly nailed how to build emotive and dynamic vehicles. However I don’t think I would call any of the ones I have owned built after 1990 as reliable.
Our goal with the LC was rugged and reliable not driving and engine dynamics. I am sorry you don’t like your LC.

I also want to say that I like the drivetrain and it was one of the reasons we bought the LC. I find it much closer to the diesel Mercedes I have had. Lots of low end torque and surprisingly efficient. Exciting it is not.

 

[LCNorth]

It reminds me of how my 2004 Land Rover Discovery 2 drove. It had a V8 but was definitely not a vehicle that you hustled. It was stately and smooth, and you were not rewarded for attempting anything further. Lively handling and sportiness is not its forte and I am perfectly happy with that.