Would new shocks (non long travel) increase my wheel travel?

[Bad1975]

Ordered dobinsons kit yesterday to forgo any possible tariff issues. They have a note about on their site currently.

I’m going with their GS series shocks as I don’t want yet another vehicle that requires coil over rebuilds every 30-40k.

Their IMS has been phenomenal on my 40 series but it doesnt see near the mileage (~5k max/year) vs. what the 250 will see being daily driven.

 

[Mtn40]

Has anyone considered doing an OEM lift? The 4Runner Trailhunter has a 2in lift over the regular 4runner. It weighs 500 lbs more than the Land Cruiser so it would give you a little more spring for a bumper and extended range tank.

That’s intriguing. I’d love to see someone do this and see how it works out.
Have you priced it yet?

 

[jay3253]

That’s intriguing. I’d love to see someone do this and see how it works out.
Have you priced it yet?

I have looked at the Lexus springs from the GX Overtrail. They want $1600 for just the springs. I'm sure the 4Runner suspension is going to be more.

 

[teghogh]

this is great information and thanks for all the measurements. does anyone know howmuch more uptravel is avaiable on the shocks when on bump stops? im trying to go the spacer lift route and like to know if i can add a halft inch spacer ( .8 after motion ratio) and prevent shocks from bottoming out.

 

[Mtn40]

this is great information and thanks for all the measurements. does anyone know howmuch more uptravel is avaiable on the shocks when on bump stops? im trying to go the spacer lift route and like to know if i can add a halft inch spacer ( .8 after motion ratio) and prevent shocks from bottoming out.

There is some unused travel in the front shocks after hitting the bumpstop.
After doing all my measurements I went with a spacer lift also. I used the Rough Country 2" lift. The front has a 1" spacer and two .25" spacers that you're supposed to stack. I used the 1" spacer and one .25" spacer and got almost exactly 2" lift. Someone on mud said they used all three spacers and thought they got closer to 2.5" lift so I went less. I wanted to keep some rake.
With my lift there's now about .25" gap between the LCA and the bump stop at full suspension compression. See picture, this was tested with the spacers on the strut, but the spring removed. I'm going to add a spacer to my bump stop.
So I'd say with your half inch spacer you'll still be using the bump stop.

I made a 8mm (5/16") spacer for mine at first, and got 1/2" lift, but almost immediately wanted more.

 

[teghogh]

There is some unused travel in the front shocks after hitting the bumpstop.
After doing all my measurements I went with a spacer lift also. I used the Rough Country 2" lift. The front has a 1" spacer and two .25" spacers that you're supposed to stack. I used the 1" spacer and one .25" spacer and got almost exactly 2" lift. Someone on mud said they used all three spacers and thought they got closer to 2.5" lift so I went less. I wanted to keep some rake.
With my lift there's now about .25" gap between the LCA and the bump stop at full suspension compression. See picture, this was tested with the spacers on the strut, but the spring removed. I'm going to add a spacer to my bump stop.
So I'd say with your half inch spacer you'll still be using the bump stop.

I made a 8mm (5/16") spacer for mine at first, and got 1/2" lift, but almost immediately wanted more.

View attachment 35357

Thank you. I would say this tread is certainly the most important one in the whole forum given all the suspension mods that are happening without knowing the final results . Couple more questions :
You went through the trouble of removing the springs from the struts to add spacers ? I thought removing the spring is not that trivial
2. Given you 1.25 spacer leaving .25 gap at full compression between LCA and bump, do you think a 1 inch spacer ( 1.6lift) could use oem bump stops ?

3. Any concern on cv angle at full droop ? If the lca is the limited at droop then theoretically down travel would not change
Thanks

 

[Mtn40]

Thank you. I would say this tread is certainly the most important one in the whole forum given all the suspension mods that are happening without knowing the final results . Couple more questions :
You went through the trouble of removing the springs from the struts to add spacers ? I thought removing the spring is not that trivial
2. Given you 1.25 spacer leaving .25 gap at full compression between LCA and bump, do you think a 1 inch spacer ( 1.6lift) could use oem bump stops ?

3. Any concern on cv angle at full droop ? If the lca is the limited at droop then theoretically down travel would not change
Thanks

Removing the spring is not trivial, but I've done it a bunch for other lifts I've installed and I really wanted to know the answers to these same questions. If you use a spacer with it's own bolts, you have to clock the strut top mount anyway and then you're already half way to removing the spring to do that.

I haven't fully flexed my Cruiser after the lift to see how far it moves under it's own weight, but I think a 1" spacer would still let the LCA hit the bump stop. I also checked inside the bump stop mount and it feels like there's about 1/4" of bump-stop post thread sticking past the mount threads, so a spacer for the bump stop should be easy to make.
If you do a lift spacer that thick it will be too much for the stock strut top bolts and you'll need to have bolts built into the spacer like in the lift kits you see. I'm guessing the reason you were initially thinking of the smaller spacer was to be able to have the spacer be a simple plate?

With my 2" lift, the strut length is still what is limiting full droop. The CVs and ball joints were not hitting/binding at that point. And since lots of folks are running 2-3 inch lifts and we haven't heard of CVs blowing up yet, I think it's ok. If I was doing high-speed driving over whoops I might worry more, but my offroad driving where full suspension travel is getting used is slower, so that should help the CVs live longer also.

Since I've been meaning to check my suspension travel after my lift and haven't yet, I'll try to do that tonight and report back. I really think I will have gained travel front and rear over stock, even though it's only a spacer lift.

Edit to answer the last question more fully: Down travel definitely changed/increased the same as the lift amount. The question is how much has uptravel been limited, and I don't think it's the full 2" of the lift.

 

[teghogh]

Removing the spring is not trivial, but I've done it a bunch for other lifts I've installed and I really wanted to know the answers to these same questions. If you use a spacer with it's own bolts, you have to clock the strut top mount anyway and then you're already half way to removing the spring to do that.

I haven't fully flexed my Cruiser after the lift to see how far it moves under it's own weight, but I think a 1" spacer would still let the LCA hit the bump stop. I also checked inside the bump stop mount and it feels like there's about 1/4" of bump-stop post thread sticking past the mount threads, so a spacer for the bump stop should be easy to make.
If you do a lift spacer that thick it will be too much for the stock strut top bolts and you'll need to have bolts built into the spacer like in the lift kits you see. I'm guessing the reason you were initially thinking of the smaller spacer was to be able to have the spacer be a simple plate?

With my 2" lift, the strut length is still what is limiting full droop. The CVs and ball joints were not hitting/binding at that point. And since lots of folks are running 2-3 inch lifts and we haven't heard of CVs blowing up yet, I think it's ok. If I was doing high-speed driving over whoops I might worry more, but my offroad driving where full suspension travel is getting used is slower, so that should help the CVs live longer also.

Since I've been meaning to check my suspension travel after my lift and haven't yet, I'll try to do that tonight and report back. I really think I will have gained travel front and rear over stock, even though it's only a spacer lift.

Edit to answer the last question more fully: Down travel definitely changed/increased the same as the lift amount. The question is how much has uptravel been limited, and I don't think it's the full 2" of the lift.

My goal is to go with 1-1.5 inch lift setup that doesn’t strain the cv, ball joints , and not limit down travel. If the sweet spot is a .75 inch spacer I will have to source it and go with that. Getting a 2.5 inch lift at the cost of losing that much on down travel does not make any sense whatsoever. Appreciate all your research

 

[teghogh]

I ended up with readylift leveling kit that is advertised as 1 inch lift. The spacer measures .8 and comes with bump stop extensions as well. Although I didn’t measure before installation , the outcome is a perfect level, which I didn’t really wanted ( I bit of rake would be preferable). Based on your math, my lift is about 1.25 total but certainly looks more than that. Given that I’m level with a .8 in spacer , I’m not sure how you still have a bit of a rake with 1.25 spacer?. Are you running stock in the back ? I’m hoping it will settle more as it sits but I’ve already driven it 20 miles . Needless to say I need alignment which I’m getting tomorrow. The alignment parameters are still valid correct?

 

[Mtn40]

Oh yeah, I didn’t mention the back at all yet.
The kit I got came with a 1” spacer for the rear so I got 2” front, 1” rear, and still have 1/2” rake.

The shop I went to for alignment couldn’t do it because their system didn’t have the specs for the 250 yet.
I have a thread talking about that somewhere.
I ended up doing some research, building some fixtures, and doing my own alignment.
I used the factory specs and got camber perfect and caster just a bit less than the lower end of the spec. I think aftermarket UCAs are in my future.
Can you check your lift at full droop in the front?
Curious how close your UCA comes to the spring.

 

[EOD Guy]

I did find some parameters that may help (towards the end of the PDF)

 

[teghogh]

Oh yeah, I didn’t mention the back at all yet.
The kit I got came with a 1” spacer for the rear so I got 2” front, 1” rear, and still have 1/2” rake.

The shop I went to for alignment couldn’t do it because their system didn’t have the specs for the 250 yet.
I have a thread talking about that somewhere.
I ended up doing some research, building some fixtures, and doing my own alignment.
I used the factory specs and got camber perfect and caster just a bit less than the lower end of the spec. I think aftermarket UCAs are in my future.
Can you check your lift at full droop in the front?
Curious how close your UCA comes to the spring.

You are something else. I have a 1958, I assume the droops will be different compared to swaybar disconnect ?

 

[teghogh]

I don’t think you gain down travel with the spacer lift since the static position of the shock hasn’t changed ?
The question is do you lose up travel if you use a bump stop spacer? I don’t think so

 

[teghogh]

Below are the pictures of the UCA at full droop. They are not binding but it is close. If my 20mm spacer is close to binding I’m not sure how your 1.25 inch is not

 

[Mtn40]

You are something else. I have a 1958, I assume the droops will be different compared to swaybar disconnect ?

Right, it's easier to get full travel with the SDM. Without it you might not ever see full droop unless both sides are hanging down. How did you get the down travel pics? Suspension crossed up or both sides hanging down?

I don’t think you gain down travel with the spacer lift since the static position of the shock hasn’t changed ?
The question is do you lose up travel if you use a bump stop spacer? I don’t think so

You're right. I said that wrong. Since droop increased with the spacers, down travel relative to ride height stayed the same as before. I flexed my 250 as much as I could on ramps in the garage and got the rear to full extension and compression and the front to full droop, but couldn't get the front to full compression.
In that state I still had as much up travel relative to ride height as before, so I think there's a little more total travel now in the front with spacers. If I were to ramp the Cruiser with the front downhill it should fully compress the front and I could see the actual full front travel.

Below are the pictures of the UCA at full droop. They are not binding but it is close. If my 20mm spacer is close to binding I’m not sure how your 1.25 inch is not

I could be wrong, but I don't think ball joints or CVs were binding on mine, but yes, my UCA does touch the spring. I think it's just touching since it doesn't cause the spring to deflect. I added some tubing to the spring to protect it. As I mentioned, I'm looking into aftermarket UCAs now. The shock was at full extension at that point so I still think that is what is limiting down travel.
When I did my alignment I could only get caster to 3.3* (which is just under the lower end of the spec) while keeping camber near nominal, so new UCAs will help with spring clearance, caster, and further ensuring the upper ball joint isn't binding at all.

So, what we know about front spacers and UCA clearance:

• 20mm(0.8") spacer = 1.3" lift, UCA does not hit spring at full extension (shock or swaybar limiting extension?)
• 1.25" spacer = 2" lift, UCA does touch spring at full down travel, nothing else binding (shock limiting extension)
• 1.5" spacer (full RC 2" lift) = 2.5" lift, UCA would be hard into the spring at full down travel, maybe other things are binding here also?

My 1.25" spacer, 2" lift at full extension attached.

 

[D-mac]

Possibly related compression damping tech with the "Hydraulic Bump Stopper" on the TEIN EnduraPro Plus that are now available for LC250:

TEIN.co.jp/e: EnduraPro / EnduraPro PLUS - PRODUCTS

tein.jp