Toyota announces $ 10 billion hit from Tariffs ...
- Thread starter Gasherbrum
- Start date
Dear Lord, you guys are straight delusional.
YEAH, BUT QUALITY ISSUES IS CRAZY! then everyone will complain about it. this is why we love jdm quality.
The wise among us don't shop at Walmart....or esp Amazon.
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Tariffs will hit ALL auto manufacturers (and our wallets). The difference which manufacturers can survive the hit, and which not. Toyota can certainly survive although it will be very painful. Hyundai/KIA will survive, too. Some manufacturers like Volvo may simply decide to pull out of US market.
Some manufacturers like Stellantis US branch (Dodge, RAM) are in much more difficult situation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stellantis pull out of US, sell Jeep brand to somebody and just shut down Dodge and RAM. There aren't many car companies who have enough financial strength to buy Jeep - Toyota, Hyundai/KIA and the Chinese. Certainly not Ford or GM. It will be ironic to see a Chinese manufacturer (BYD, SAIC, Geely, ...) ending up owning an iconic American brand like Jeep.
GM will survive thanks to the fact that they make a lot of money in China. Ford is in more difficult situation - their profitability sucks, and their international business is much smaller than in the past.
While US is still a large and important car market, the reality is that it only matters to GM and Ford, and for all other large manufacturers China is the priority. China is the biggest, growing and most influential auto market in the world.
Some manufacturers like Stellantis US branch (Dodge, RAM) are in much more difficult situation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stellantis pull out of US, sell Jeep brand to somebody and just shut down Dodge and RAM. There aren't many car companies who have enough financial strength to buy Jeep - Toyota, Hyundai/KIA and the Chinese. Certainly not Ford or GM. It will be ironic to see a Chinese manufacturer (BYD, SAIC, Geely, ...) ending up owning an iconic American brand like Jeep.
GM will survive thanks to the fact that they make a lot of money in China. Ford is in more difficult situation - their profitability sucks, and their international business is much smaller than in the past.
While US is still a large and important car market, the reality is that it only matters to GM and Ford, and for all other large manufacturers China is the priority. China is the biggest, growing and most influential auto market in the world.
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You make a great point about Jeep. I loved my Jeep right up until I didn't, which was about 100,000 miles before the build and quality issues starting nickel and diming me to death - every other month was $100-600 going out the door.
My buddy, a big Jeep guy, said that they brought someone back in charge that's gung ho on bringing back the Jeep brand and the way my buddy is talking, "hemis for everything", which seems like a bad idea to me, but what do I know.
He's also impressed with the deep discounts Jeep is offering - until he went to trade his in and saw what they were going to give him for his. Seems like a no win situation.There are new Jeeps (Wranglers and Gladiators) sitting on the lot yet from when I traded mine in last year (Jeep is next to the Toyota dealer, and my Jeep just went from one lot to the other), and the dealership isn't really ordering many newer ones. Tariffs just might do Jeep in - I agree, it would be wild to see a shift of ownership to Hyundai/Kia/China.
I don't know about "hemis for everything" approach. I guess that can compete in the niche luxury offroader/SUV market with that approach. But they lack the build quality to complete with Land Rover or things like G-wagon.You make a great point about Jeep. I loved my Jeep right up until I didn't, which was about 100,000 miles before the build and quality issues starting nickel and diming me to death - every other month was $100-600 going out the door.
My buddy, a big Jeep guy, said that they brought someone back in charge that's gung ho on bringing back the Jeep brand and the way my buddy is talking, "hemis for everything", which seems like a bad idea to me, but what do I know.
There are new Jeeps (Wranglers and Gladiators) sitting on the lot yet from when I traded mine in last year (Jeep is next to the Toyota dealer, and my Jeep just went from one lot to the other), and the dealership isn't really ordering many newer ones. Tariffs just might do Jeep in - I agree, it would be wild to see a shift of ownership to Hyundai/Kia/China.
Fun story, my wife worked for Chrysler HQ when Daimler-Benz bought them. Part of the justification for the purchase was Benz wanted to know how Chrysler pushed out so many new models so quickly. When they found out, the reaction was pretty much pure horror. Chrysler's business model at the time was to make you need a new car every 2-3 years -- some great designs she would say, but intentionally terrible execution. (My wife drove a Toyota the whole time she worked there...)
It would be kind of amazing if Toyota bought Jeep and then started manufacturing Jeeps the way they manufacture Toyotas. (I don't think it would ever happen though.)
Back to the original topic: with the current trade deals and taxes, it's less expensive for Toyota to build cars in Japan than in the US, especially since previous trade deals made US auto manufacturing heavily intertwined with Canada and Mexico. So no surprise Toyota wants to manufacture more in Japan and wait out the chaos.
I worked for 29 years in engineering and R&D at the largest and most successful consumer goods company in the world. We produced tons of intellectual property, resulting in hundreds of patents every year. The reason the company I worked for has consistently been the global leader was INNOVATION (products, processes and manufacturing technology). I am inventor and published research author myself and I know a thing or two about technology and innovation.
The first thing you need to succeed in technology and innovation is highly educated workforce, mostly in STEM areas. With these charts you can draw your own conclusions. Unless we create more affordable higher education opportunities, US will keep falling behind. Manufacturing jobs don't create competitive advantage - science, research and access to higher education give you the edge.
^^ This, and all of the supporting graphics. Over 20 years in tech, engineering, R&D - and you're absolutely 100% correct. Manufacturing jobs won't be what makes us superior, or AI for that matter.
If you try to normalize these stats by populations, we all just showed what a developed country should look like. China is not necessarily better or worse.
My job now is to design in U.S., and out source manufacturing. What really impress me for these manufacturing in Asia is their attitude as they showed a strong motivation to win your business. Yes price is still super important but adding tariff wouldn’t make any American manufacturer to be more customer friendly, seriously. And the attitude inflate the cost back too at some point. Slowly anybody who have common sense just doesn’t want to work with US alternative anymore. I am not an economist, but every sensible person knows that you can’t expect using just nationalism to magically make yourself great. Protectionism often does just the opposite. Just go look at that God Damn Jones Act and how it obliterate the entire ship building yards one after another. Adding another one trillion percent tariff all you want, US still doesn’t know how to build a ship anymore. Keep going like this a few decades later we won’t know how to build a car neither.
Agree 100%. It's much easier to do manufacturing abroad. I was in charge of "low cost fabrication" program in our company. It wasn't even about price. It was just much easier to find production capacity in Asia and Easter Europe. Qualified personnel was abundant, while in the US finding qualified machinist or welders was a struggle. We tried to develop manufacturing capacity in high unemployment area of the US (Appalachia) but simply couldn't find qualified people there. Drug addiction and illiteracy were rampant - you simply can't put such people to work with CNC machines or any level of automation. In contrast, in China, Malaysia or Easter Europe we could easily find hundreds of employees with good technical college education that were ready for modern manufacturing jobs.
Intelligence being spoken here. Wasn't much intelligence voting lately...................
This is a Toyota Land Cruiser forum. But just go to a Jeep or RAM forum ...
As an R&D physicist in a US manufacturing company I agree, and it's terrifying to see the funding cuts forcing the current generation of early career scientists to flee the country. When you're a grad student you can't afford to miss a paycheck, or at least when I was a grad student I couldn't.
The worst thing is that there are millions of people in this country who believe that watching Foxnews, a few videos on TikTok and reading posts on Truth Social makes them experts in everything.
It take 8,000-10,000 hours of study just to reach undergrad knowledge level, another 4,000-5,000 for a master and another 5,000-10,000 to reach PhD level, plus many thousands of professional experience to reach "expert" level.
We're living in
Is there a limit to how many members I can “ignore”.
It was all being referred to already. Auto industry is getting shredded by the tariff wars was my point. I, too, am a Dr and know exactly what you are talking about. No one with any sanity wants to go into healthcare anymore. Too much effort for NO reward but being stuck working for some Mister with no ethics or morals, hallmarks of healthcare. Ignore this fact and you are, indeed, a fool.
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