Towing "Pre" Test

[ferrari1898]

In a couple weeks we will be camping in the Smokey's and will have a more extensive towing review. It's a 2.5-3 hour drive from Charlotte to the Smokey Mountains and it is a route we have taken with our two previous tow vehicles. It is also a good mix of with some city, highway and interstate along with a combination of flat, hills and mountains.

Today, in preparation I a little 20 mile loop from the camper storage to downtown York (rural suburb of Charlotte). The route is 45-55 mph with a couple stop lights and gentle hills with a small section in the city at the half way turn around point.

We have a Hitch 17BHS that is 7' wide and weighs 3300 lb / 425 lb on the tongue. With some of the gear we are likely closer to 3500-3600 lb. We have a weight distribution hitch, but debating if the additional weight and effort is worth the trouble. With a standard hitch, the Land Cruiser felt pretty stable, though I did not have any jacked up pickups / big rigs blasting by me.

The first run I did without the camper, and in the standard drive mode. It took me 26 minutes to complete the 20 mile route and I averaged 27.3 mpg while using the cruise control.

The second run I enabled the towing mode. It took a few minutes to figure out how to setup the brake controller (vehicle setting that you access with the steering wheel controls). It took only 24 minutes to complete the course while averaging only 12.2 mpg. I was hoping for something a little bit better, but there was no lack of torque and in towing mode the gear selection was spot on. The integrated brake controller was wonderful (I had gain at 7.0) and so much smoother than the previous aftermarket controller that plugged into the Honda. When the 7 pin connector is plugged in (not sure if this applies to the 4 pin) the cruise control is disabled. The engine also does not shut off, even at the stop light. I also noticed that at low speeds the electric motor was less inclined to engage.

The third run I had the camper and disabled towing mode (using the standard drive mode) in hopes I could use cruise control and get betting mpg with the engine shutting off. The brake controller still functions like in towing mode though the cruise control still does not work. In this run it took 24 minutes with 11.4 mpg. While the engine shuts off at the stop lights, and down some of the hills to save fuel, the Toyota opted for turbo boost instead of downshifting which on several hills it struggled to maintain speed.

A couple final thoughts on the initial towing test.

1 - When connecting and disconnecting the camper I disabled the towing mode. The engine would shut off, the a/c would still run while lining up and performing all the house keeping when going in / out of storage.

2 - If you manually use the brake controller, there is a message that appears in the center of the dash which is really nice to perform a brake test.

 

[abt]

Very informative post, thank you very much!

 

[Teebo]

Nice write up. I’ve been wanting to test this out. My trailer is a 13’ scamp that does have brakes though it weighs around 1,500 pounds

 

[Gabel1]

Thanks for your info! I will test mine out soon with a 3800 lb TT.

 

[ZeaStardust]

Thanks for the post.

 

[pdizzle]

In a couple weeks we will be camping in the Smokey's and will have a more extensive towing review. It's a 2.5-3 hour drive from Charlotte to the Smokey Mountains and it is a route we have taken with our two previous tow vehicles. It is also a good mix of with some city, highway and interstate along with a combination of flat, hills and mountains.

Today, in preparation I a little 20 mile loop from the camper storage to downtown York (rural suburb of Charlotte). The route is 45-55 mph with a couple stop lights and gentle hills with a small section in the city at the half way turn around point.

We have a Hitch 17BHS that is 7' wide and weighs 3300 lb / 425 lb on the tongue. With some of the gear we are likely closer to 3500-3600 lb. We have a weight distribution hitch, but debating if the additional weight and effort is worth the trouble. With a standard hitch, the Land Cruiser felt pretty stable, though I did not have any jacked up pickups / big rigs blasting by me.

The first run I did without the camper, and in the standard drive mode. It took me 26 minutes to complete the 20 mile route and I averaged 27.3 mpg while using the cruise control.

The second run I enabled the towing mode. It took a few minutes to figure out how to setup the brake controller (vehicle setting that you access with the steering wheel controls). It took only 24 minutes to complete the course while averaging only 12.2 mpg. I was hoping for something a little bit better, but there was no lack of torque and in towing mode the gear selection was spot on. The integrated brake controller was wonderful (I had gain at 7.0) and so much smoother than the previous aftermarket controller that plugged into the Honda. When the 7 pin connector is plugged in (not sure if this applies to the 4 pin) the cruise control is disabled. The engine also does not shut off, even at the stop light. I also noticed that at low speeds the electric motor was less inclined to engage.

The third run I had the camper and disabled towing mode (using the standard drive mode) in hopes I could use cruise control and get betting mpg with the engine shutting off. The brake controller still functions like in towing mode though the cruise control still does not work. In this run it took 24 minutes with 11.4 mpg. While the engine shuts off at the stop lights, and down some of the hills to save fuel, the Toyota opted for turbo boost instead of downshifting which on several hills it struggled to maintain speed.

A couple final thoughts on the initial towing test.

1 - When connecting and disconnecting the camper I disabled the towing mode. The engine would shut off, the a/c would still run while lining up and performing all the house keeping when going in / out of storage.

2 - If you manually use the brake controller, there is a message that appears in the center of the dash which is really nice to perform a brake test.

I have a teardrop just under 3k lbs.
2021 4Runner pro would not pull it over 60 without dropping into third gear. Land Cruiser sitting around like it’s nothing. at 50 Land Cruiser gets about 12 miles to the gallon while were 4runner was getting about seven.

And quite honestly, the ride is way smoother with the trailer.

 

[b407driver]

I have a teardrop just under 3k lbs.
2021 4Runner pro would not pull it over 60 without dropping into third gear. Land Cruiser sitting around like it’s nothing. at 50 Land Cruiser gets about 12 miles to the gallon while were 4runner was getting about seven.

And quite honestly, the ride is way smoother with the trailer.

You must not live at altitude. Spend almost all my time in second and third gears, I am over how poorly the 4Runner tows here in CO, and can't wait for delivery of my LC.

 

[pdizzle]

You must not live at altitude. Spend almost all my time in second and third gears, I am over how poorly the 4Runner tows here in CO, and can't wait for delivery of my LC.

Sorry to hear, but that makes me feel not alone. Just some hills but mostly coastal plains.

 

[handy]

I have a teardrop just under 3k lbs.
2021 4Runner pro would not pull it over 60 without dropping into third gear. Land Cruiser sitting around like it’s nothing. at 50 Land Cruiser gets about 12 miles to the gallon while were 4runner was getting about seven.

And quite honestly, the ride is way smoother with the trailer.

Are you running a weight distribution hitch or just straight hitch mount?

I am looking at a rv trailer @ 2500 lbs with brakes.

 

[pdizzle]

In a couple weeks we will be camping in the Smokey's and will have a more extensive towing review. It's a 2.5-3 hour drive from Charlotte to the Smokey Mountains and it is a route we have taken with our two previous tow vehicles. It is also a good mix of with some city, highway and interstate along with a combination of flat, hills and mountains.

Today, in preparation I a little 20 mile loop from the camper storage to downtown York (rural suburb of Charlotte). The route is 45-55 mph with a couple stop lights and gentle hills with a small section in the city at the half way turn around point.

We have a Hitch 17BHS that is 7' wide and weighs 3300 lb / 425 lb on the tongue. With some of the gear we are likely closer to 3500-3600 lb. We have a weight distribution hitch, but debating if the additional weight and effort is worth the trouble. With a standard hitch, the Land Cruiser felt pretty stable, though I did not have any jacked up pickups / big rigs blasting by me.

The first run I did without the camper, and in the standard drive mode. It took me 26 minutes to complete the 20 mile route and I averaged 27.3 mpg while using the cruise control.

The second run I enabled the towing mode. It took a few minutes to figure out how to setup the brake controller (vehicle setting that you access with the steering wheel controls). It took only 24 minutes to complete the course while averaging only 12.2 mpg. I was hoping for something a little bit better, but there was no lack of torque and in towing mode the gear selection was spot on. The integrated brake controller was wonderful (I had gain at 7.0) and so much smoother than the previous aftermarket controller that plugged into the Honda. When the 7 pin connector is plugged in (not sure if this applies to the 4 pin) the cruise control is disabled. The engine also does not shut off, even at the stop light. I also noticed that at low speeds the electric motor was less inclined to engage.

The third run I had the camper and disabled towing mode (using the standard drive mode) in hopes I could use cruise control and get betting mpg with the engine shutting off. The brake controller still functions like in towing mode though the cruise control still does not work. In this run it took 24 minutes with 11.4 mpg. While the engine shuts off at the stop lights, and down some of the hills to save fuel, the Toyota opted for turbo boost instead of downshifting which on several hills it struggled to maintain speed.

A couple final thoughts on the initial towing test.

1 - When connecting and disconnecting the camper I disabled the towing mode. The engine would shut off, the a/c would still run while lining up and performing all the house keeping when going in / out of storage.

2 - If you manually use the brake controller, there is a message that appears in the center of the dash which is really nice to perform a brake test.

I get about 11 mpg towing 2.5k tear drop.

In a couple weeks we will be camping in the Smokey's and will have a more extensive towing review. It's a 2.5-3 hour drive from Charlotte to the Smokey Mountains and it is a route we have taken with our two previous tow vehicles. It is also a good mix of with some city, highway and interstate along with a combination of flat, hills and mountains.

Today, in preparation I a little 20 mile loop from the camper storage to downtown York (rural suburb of Charlotte). The route is 45-55 mph with a couple stop lights and gentle hills with a small section in the city at the half way turn around point.

We have a Hitch 17BHS that is 7' wide and weighs 3300 lb / 425 lb on the tongue. With some of the gear we are likely closer to 3500-3600 lb. We have a weight distribution hitch, but debating if the additional weight and effort is worth the trouble. With a standard hitch, the Land Cruiser felt pretty stable, though I did not have any jacked up pickups / big rigs blasting by me.

The first run I did without the camper, and in the standard drive mode. It took me 26 minutes to complete the 20 mile route and I averaged 27.3 mpg while using the cruise control.

The second run I enabled the towing mode. It took a few minutes to figure out how to setup the brake controller (vehicle setting that you access with the steering wheel controls). It took only 24 minutes to complete the course while averaging only 12.2 mpg. I was hoping for something a little bit better, but there was no lack of torque and in towing mode the gear selection was spot on. The integrated brake controller was wonderful (I had gain at 7.0) and so much smoother than the previous aftermarket controller that plugged into the Honda. When the 7 pin connector is plugged in (not sure if this applies to the 4 pin) the cruise control is disabled. The engine also does not shut off, even at the stop light. I also noticed that at low speeds the electric motor was less inclined to engage.

The third run I had the camper and disabled towing mode (using the standard drive mode) in hopes I could use cruise control and get betting mpg with the engine shutting off. The brake controller still functions like in towing mode though the cruise control still does not work. In this run it took 24 minutes with 11.4 mpg. While the engine shuts off at the stop lights, and down some of the hills to save fuel, the Toyota opted for turbo boost instead of downshifting which on several hills it struggled to maintain speed.

A couple final thoughts on the initial towing test.

1 - When connecting and disconnecting the camper I disabled the towing mode. The engine would shut off, the a/c would still run while lining up and performing all the house keeping when going in / out of storage.

2 - If you manually use the brake controller, there is a message that appears in the center of the dash which is really nice to perform a brake test.

Your experience is pretty much the same as mine, however I’m only getting about 11 miles per gallon. Yet to think that I need more torque. I did have to put a anti-swaybar on the trailer and hitch at high speeds when the road got lumpy. The trailer would get really swirly, with the sway bar don’t even think about it being back there..

 

[ultane]

I get about 11 mpg towing 2.5k tear drop.

That is about what I expected. Time will tell. I can’t imagine how my 4000 pound cargo trailer is going to do, when the need arises.

I did have to put a anti-swaybar on the trailer and hitch.

Thanks for reporting this.

 

[TLC]

Question for everyone who has towed a travel trailer with their LC….
I’m looking to get a 3300lb camper. Hitch weight is 390. Thoughts on whether I’ll need a weight distribution hitch?

 

[ferrari1898]

Question for everyone who has towed a travel trailer with their LC….
I’m looking to get a 3300lb camper. Hitch weight is 390. Thoughts on whether I’ll need a weight distribution hitch?

In my opinion, YES. Our camper is 3500lb and about 400lb tongue weight if I recall correctly.

We originally had a Subaru Ascent and it towed the camper OK without a weight distribution hitch (WDH) only because the Ascent does not allow it. We ended up putting in heavier springs to help the squat. Being passed by a big rig was not fun, but it wasn't horrible.

We then had a Honda Ridgeline and on the highway the trailer was MUCH better with the WDH. At lower (sub 60mph) speeds the value is less critical. The downside with the Honda was the V6 would need to spin to 5k+ for every small hill. Squat was negligible, however on the highway the WDH really made for a better towing experience. Without the WDH, the Honda did about the the same as the Subaru, maybe a tick worse.

We tried to Toyota Land Cruiser without the WDH and out of the 3 vehicles, It was by far the WORST without the WDH. The rear squat was not as bad as the Subaru, but not nearly as good as the Honda. But driving down the road the Toyota steering felt VERY light and more than a bit concerning a few times on the highway.

Adding the WDH made a 1000% improvement. The Land Cruiser tows our camper great. The turbo and hybrid provide power on demand. JUST REMEMBER EVERY TIME TO YOU START THE TOYOTA TO PRESS THE TOW / HAUL MODE!

If you have a very aerodynamic camper or R-POD that is only 6' 6" wide, maybe you will have better luck, but I would highly encourage using it.

 

[ultane]

In my opinion, YES. Our camper is 3500lb and about 400lb tongue weight if I recall correctly.

We originally had a Subaru Ascent and it towed the camper OK without a weight distribution hitch (WDH) only because the Ascent does not allow it. We ended up putting in heavier springs to help the squat. Being passed by a big rig was not fun, but it wasn't horrible.

We then had a Honda Ridgeline and on the highway the trailer was MUCH better with the WDH. At lower (sub 60mph) speeds the value is less critical. The downside with the Honda was the V6 would need to spin to 5k+ for every small hill. Squat was negligible, however on the highway the WDH really made for a better towing experience. Without the WDH, the Honda did about the the same as the Subaru, maybe a tick worse.

We tried to Toyota Land Cruiser without the WDH and out of the 3 vehicles, It was by far the WORST without the WDH. The rear squat was not as bad as the Subaru, but not nearly as good as the Honda. But driving down the road the Toyota steering felt VERY light and more than a bit concerning a few times on the highway.

Adding the WDH made a 1000% improvement. The Land Cruiser tows our camper great. The turbo and hybrid provide power on demand. JUST REMEMBER EVERY TIME TO YOU START THE TOYOTA TO PRESS THE TOW / HAUL MODE!

If you have a very aerodynamic camper or R-POD that is only 6' 6" wide, maybe you will have better luck, but I would highly encourage using it.

Thanks for the report!

 

[TLC]

In my opinion, YES. Our camper is 3500lb and about 400lb tongue weight if I recall correctly.

We originally had a Subaru Ascent and it towed the camper OK without a weight distribution hitch (WDH) only because the Ascent does not allow it. We ended up putting in heavier springs to help the squat. Being passed by a big rig was not fun, but it wasn't horrible.

We then had a Honda Ridgeline and on the highway the trailer was MUCH better with the WDH. At lower (sub 60mph) speeds the value is less critical. The downside with the Honda was the V6 would need to spin to 5k+ for every small hill. Squat was negligible, however on the highway the WDH really made for a better towing experience. Without the WDH, the Honda did about the the same as the Subaru, maybe a tick worse.

We tried to Toyota Land Cruiser without the WDH and out of the 3 vehicles, It was by far the WORST without the WDH. The rear squat was not as bad as the Subaru, but not nearly as good as the Honda. But driving down the road the Toyota steering felt VERY light and more than a bit concerning a few times on the highway.

Adding the WDH made a 1000% improvement. The Land Cruiser tows our camper great. The turbo and hybrid provide power on demand. JUST REMEMBER EVERY TIME TO YOU START THE TOYOTA TO PRESS THE TOW / HAUL MODE!

If you have a very aerodynamic camper or R-POD that is only 6' 6" wide, maybe you will have better luck, but I would highly encourage using it.

This is solid feedback. Thank you!

 

[Bigfoot]

I tow a 3500 lb travel trailer that is front heavy (around 600 lb tongue weight). Without a WDH sway was not evident but the rear squatted over 2 inches which is poor. I got a WDH to deal with the sag. Fuel mileage towing is between 11 to 14 mpg at moderate speeds (up to 65 mph).

If I remember correctly from last year the cruise control works when towing by turning off the adaptive cruise and lane assist features.

 

[SKLC]

Just be mindful of the payload capacity and tongue weight since they are linked to overall vehicle capacity. Tongue weight is typically recommended for 10-15% and some trailer companies specs on marketing material is not 100% accurate so best to weigh the rig as you’ll tow it. Tongue weight too heavy is not good for the tow vehicle long term or your control and stability while towing.
My actual scale weights:
Tongue weight: 295 lbs
Fully loaded trailer weight: 4,450 lbs (~75% of my 6,000 lb tow capacity)

No issues with power—it tows better than expected. I stay at the speed limit, monitor transmission temps (only minor increases), and stability is solid thanks to the LC’s weight vs. trailer.

Cargo capacity is the real constraint. My LC’s recent scale weight:
GVW: 6,265 lbs (with passengers, dogs, roof rack, rooftop box, camping gear, full fuel, and larger tires)
GVWR (door sticker): 6,835 lbs. so, remaining payload: 285 lbs after adding back in for tongue weight. If you tow something heavy, adding mods like a winch, bumpers, would eat into that quickly, so I’ve kept them minimal. With the trailer attached, rear sag is ~¾”. Planning spring/shock upgrades and heavy-duty bump stops soon.

 

[Firedude67]

Great point about adding mods!

 

[Bigfoot]

Just be mindful of the payload capacity and tongue weight since they are linked to overall vehicle capacity. Tongue weight is typically recommended for 10-15% and some trailer companies specs on marketing material is not 100% accurate so best to weigh the rig as you’ll tow it. Tongue weight too heavy is not good for the tow vehicle long term or your control and stability while towing.
My actual scale weights:
Tongue weight: 295 lbs
Fully loaded trailer weight: 4,450 lbs (~75% of my 6,000 lb tow capacity)

No issues with power—it tows better than expected. I stay at the speed limit, monitor transmission temps (only minor increases), and stability is solid thanks to the LC’s weight vs. trailer.

Cargo capacity is the real constraint. My LC’s recent scale weight:
GVW: 6,265 lbs (with passengers, dogs, roof rack, rooftop box, camping gear, full fuel, and larger tires)
GVWR (door sticker): 6,835 lbs. so, remaining payload: 285 lbs after adding back in for tongue weight. If you tow something heavy, adding mods like a winch, bumpers, would eat into that quickly, so I’ve kept them minimal. With the trailer attached, rear sag is ~¾”. Planning spring/shock upgrades and heavy-duty bump stops soon.

Kudos for weighing things. Your tongue weight of only 6.6% of the loaded trailer is far too low. That alone will induce trailer sway. You may want to consider redistributing the load. Of course a higher tongue weight will eat into your thin payload margin and cause more sag. An inch or so sag is normal so suspension upgrades may be overkill.