From TopGear: “might just be the finest car I’ve driven in over 25 years”
- Thread starter Rumbleandsway
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Agree 100%!
No ADAS, narrow body, analogue instruments/buttons, proper key and more FUN than a GT3.
Other car is the latest RS3VB 5dr….would swap it for a 991.2 T 6MT RWS in a heartbeat.
Not for me... my interest was honestly quite piqued when rumors about a new Tacoma/4Runner hybrid powertrain started floating around a few years ago, and once iForceMax was announced I was eager to test drive one.
I like the idea of being able to rely less on gasoline alone, and being able to take advantage of the added horsepower and torque the electric motor provides. I don't have a need to travel long distances on a single tank or do much (if any) towing, so the I have little desire to deal with a diesel engine (edit: see this post) ...yes, I enjoy the occasional adventure that a vehicle like the LC facilitates, but this is also my daily driver, so I need something that's also enjoyable to drive around town and on the highway.
I've owned the old 3.5L 1GR from the 2nd gen Tacoma, and I can say that the T24A-FTS (hybrid/turbo 4-cylinder "iForceMax") engine is more fun to drive... more pep and better response to acceleration at cruising speed, IMO...and that's what I'm looking for...better fuel economy is an added bonus for sure!
Yeah, the cargo area is elevated...doesn't bother me (I'd personally much prefer a flat-folding rear seat, battery or no battery!)
Having said that, obviously only time will tell if this engine and powertrain stand the test of time and live up to Toyota's usual reputation of reliability, but so far I'm happy with mine...and have zero remorse that it's not a diesel and am happy to have the hybrid motor.
If im going to get a diesel engine, id rather it be a 79 series at that point
The hybrid motor provides diesel-like torque and fuel economy with none of the cumbersome emissions equipment, so I don't see the appeal anymore. The extra storage space offered in the diesel will be negated by the mild-hybrid they're rolling out, like in Australia.
European emissions regulations are more strict than US. All diesels in Europe have DEF and particulate filters. So emissions regulations are not a barrier to sell diesel LC in the US. The real reason is that 99% of American consumers wouldn't want to drive a diesel. It's slow and noisy, and American consumers want power and acceleration. They are obsessed by horsepower numbers, even if they never use the power.
You really believe that this is an honest, unbiased review?
This is classic case of "payola".
The diesel engine has come a long way in a short period of time. Reading through this thread obviously spotlights opinions based on perceived notions rather than fact. I have owned and driven countless diesel vehicles over time and currently have a '23 F350 Powerstroke along with a '19 Ram cab and chassis 4500. I've owned countless Powerstroke, Cummins, Detroit, Cat, Deere and Kubota powered equipment and vehicles over time. My current F350 Powerstroke achieves 25 + MPG on the road out of an 4 ton vehicle at speed. It's extremely quiet and has 500 hp w/1250 ft lbs of torque, bone stock. The Cummins in the '19 Ram is putting out 375 hp w/1000 ft lb of torque, tuned, but running all emissions, being a DOT Licensed Vehicle. I owned various Mercedes diesel vehicles that could be driven over 700 miles on a tank of fuel. I deal with clowns daily who come in looking for a piece of equipment and are adamantly opposed to purchasing anything with burners or requiring DEF. We see very little issues with current diesel engines, but when we do, It's always operator neglect or ignorance. Some like to delete emissions, probably the same folks who hacked the seat belts out of their vehicles because Federal Laws implementing their use back in the day. Diesels will start and operate in extreme temperatures considering they're maintained properly. If you're convinced that a diesel isn't for you, I get it. Talking out your ass about something you don't understand is fine I suppose until someone calls you out. If Toyota offered a diesel in their vehicles, I'd have one. Lastly, get on EBAY and search used gasoline vs diesel powered high mileage vehicles and notice the difference in value between the 2. Granted diesel powered vehicles cost more new, but there's a market for them. Next time you open up a can of Spam, consider the can probably came from a recycled petrol powered vehicle or machine
I have owned two modern turbo diesel cars (a BMW and a Renault) and I am perfectly aware of their driving dynamics. The issue is that Toyota LC diesel is only rated ~200 hp and most American consumers would find it underpowered. If Toyota had a 250-300 hp diesel it would be a different story. Toyota should partner with BMW like they did for the Supra to get some of the excellent BMW diesels. The Toyota one is a non-starter.
Again, this is solely your opinion. Look at the torque figures. They would perform considering. Not everyone runs the crap out of their vehicle. Why would Toyota purchase an engine from BMW? Maybe a Supra sequel?
Evidently Toyota agrees with my opinion because they don't offer a diesel in the US.
Probably more to do with their CAFE numbers than perceived marketability
No. Diesel gets better fuel economy than gas engines. And as I already mentioned above, emissions are not an issue because the LC already meets strict European emission standards. Toyota knows that the market for a diesel LC would be very small, not worth the investment in the massive infrastructure they would need to develop. Sure, they may sell a few thousand, but if they do, they would have to train technicians for every dealership, and dealers would have to buy tools and diagnostic equipment. Too expensive for a small sales potential. It's purely a business decision.
Let's look at some numbers. LC annual sales in the US are about 50,000 (~37,000 Jan to Oct 2025). Assume that 20% of them would be diesel, so 10,000 per year. The LC is a niche vehicle and with 4Runner competitin it's unlikely that sales will grow much beyond this number. There are over 1,200 Toyota dealers in the US. Do you think any dealer would be willing to spend the money to train techs and buy special tooling to service 8 cars they would sell per year?
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Do you understand how this calculated?
Both diesel and gas have their ideal use-case. The overlap between the two isn't gigantic. Each shines in different situations, and both have sadly become overly complex - just the way the auto industry is now. I love my little Chevy pocket diesel, but I don't drive 50K highway miles a year with a bunch of stuff in the bed anymore - it was the PERFECT vehicle for that. I recently sold my Ram 3500 - thing was a hoss and towed what I needed it to.
Toyota isn't being stupid avoiding diesels here. There would be more of a niche market for them (I would be in that market). I simply don't think most consumers here understand diesels enough to appreciate their benefits. The perception among many is negative, and unfairly so IMHO. Moreover, most consumers frankly don't need a diesel engine for their use. On top of all that, the Big 3 are the kings when it comes to diesels. Most who want a diesel want a big Ford/Chevy/Ram truck. Nissan tried to do that and it didn't stick. Smaller diesels are becoming extinct.
For the LC, I actually really like the hybrid powertrain. It suits what it'll be used for very well, assuming it's reliable like Toyotas of the past. If Toyota ever decides to sell a diesel 70 series in the US, sign me up!
Toyota isn't being stupid avoiding diesels here. There would be more of a niche market for them (I would be in that market). I simply don't think most consumers here understand diesels enough to appreciate their benefits. The perception among many is negative, and unfairly so IMHO. Moreover, most consumers frankly don't need a diesel engine for their use. On top of all that, the Big 3 are the kings when it comes to diesels. Most who want a diesel want a big Ford/Chevy/Ram truck. Nissan tried to do that and it didn't stick. Smaller diesels are becoming extinct.
For the LC, I actually really like the hybrid powertrain. It suits what it'll be used for very well, assuming it's reliable like Toyotas of the past. If Toyota ever decides to sell a diesel 70 series in the US, sign me up!
Yes. 50,000 LC per year sold at 1,200 dealers. 50,000 ÷ 1,200 = 42 LC per dealer. 20% of them diesel. 20% of 42 is 8 diesel LC per dealer per year. Not enough to invest in training, tools and additional (fairly unique) parts inventory.
There are other low volume Toyota models like the Crown, but they share most mechanical and electrical components with high volume models.
Why don't you write to Akio Toyoda and explain how his marketing and business managers are so stupid because they do not sell diesel LC in the US? I'm sure he will agree with you.
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Automakers determine their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirements
by using a complex formula based on the footprint of each vehicle model, which is a measure of its size (track width and wheelbase). The government sets a target fuel economy based on this footprint, and manufacturers must then meet the harmonic average of the fuel economy ratings for all vehicles in each of their separate fleets (domestic cars, non-domestic cars, and light trucks).
How it works
by using a complex formula based on the footprint of each vehicle model, which is a measure of its size (track width and wheelbase). The government sets a target fuel economy based on this footprint, and manufacturers must then meet the harmonic average of the fuel economy ratings for all vehicles in each of their separate fleets (domestic cars, non-domestic cars, and light trucks).
How it works
- Footprint calculation: A vehicle's footprint is calculated by multiplying its average track width by its wheelbase.
- Target setting: The government sets a different, tiered fuel economy target for each footprint size. Larger vehicles have lower mileage targets, and smaller vehicles have higher ones. The targets become stricter over time.
- Harmonic averaging: For each of the three separate fleets (domestic cars, non-domestic cars, and light trucks), the CAFE number is calculated using the harmonic mean. This involves dividing the total number of vehicles in the fleet by the sum of the model's individual "reciprocals" (1/fuel economy).
- Example:If a manufacturer sells 10,000 cars, 5,000 of which get 20 mpg and 5,000 get 30 mpg, the CAFE is not the simple average (25mpg). Instead, it's calculated as:
- Total vehicles / [(10,000/20) + (10,000/30)] = 10,000 / [500 + 333.33] = 10,000 / 833.33 =
12 mpg.
- Total vehicles / [(10,000/20) + (10,000/30)] = 10,000 / [500 + 333.33] = 10,000 / 833.33 =
- Example:If a manufacturer sells 10,000 cars, 5,000 of which get 20 mpg and 5,000 get 30 mpg, the CAFE is not the simple average (25mpg). Instead, it's calculated as:
- Compliance: Each of the three fleets must meet its own fleet-specific target. Manufacturers can also bank credits for exceeding the standard in one year and use them to offset shortfalls in other years.
- Testing: Fuel economy is determined through two standardized test cycles: a 55% city/45% highway weighting. These figures can differ from the "unadjusted dynamometer values".
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Maybe if Toyota only sold diesel LC’s at significantly larger dealerships, in carefully chosen locations, the numbers could be more favorable.. (?)
CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) is calculated using a production-weighted harmonic mean, not a simple arithmetic average, to account for the number of vehicles sold at each fuel economy rating. The formula adds up the inverse of each vehicle's fuel economy (its gallons per mile) and then divides the total number of vehicles by this sum. For example, if a manufacturer has two models, one sold at 25 mpg and the other at 30 mpg, and produces 2 units of the first and 3 units of the second, the CAFE is calculated as (2+3)/(2/25+3/30)=27.8 mpg.
In your specific example (5,000 @ 30 mpg, 5,000 @ 20 mpg) the CAFE average would be (5000+5000) ÷ (5000÷30 + 5000÷20) = 24 mpg (which makes much more sense than 12 mpg
)I guess algebra wasn't your strength in high school.
LC diesel is rated 9.6 l/100km, which translates in ~24.5 mpg, better than the hybrid. It would actually help Toyota's CAFE average.
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