Real World mpg

[DctrEvil]

As I anticipate delivery of my LC Trim level LC, it's interesting to pontificate on Toyota's motivation for these 4cyl hybrid engines.
My only point of reference is my current '21 Tocoma access cab, 2wd, 6cyl which this morning gave me the mpg's below. Brand new tank of gas (21 gallon capacity) at the outset of my usual 30 mile morning commute (nearly 90% of the drive at 80mph on interstate with only four short idling stoplights, AC on but not a hot day, and only me in the truck, no cargo). Avg mpg at the end of the drive 23.6 - not too shabby!

Like many of those on this great forum, I've obsessively watched and consumed every bit of content I can find on this forum and YouTube regarding the engineering of the engine in our new LC's and I think I understand the basics.
FWIW, here are some of my thoughts:
-The LC -5038lbs - will be heavier than my little Tocoma -3915lbs (which I'll be trading towards it) and the LC will give us the benefit of full time 4wd, so I'm sure the same 6cyl engine wouldn't have been nearly as efficient in the LC. Perhaps that's why Toyota decided to find the perfect mix of a smaller engine to burn less gas, but boost it with turbo and an electric motor to bring the power back up to what a NA 6cyl would offer.
-The electric motor torque will be cool to access off-road and occasionally on-road when needed, which my 6cy (non-turbo) Tacoma doesn't have.
-The big inverter will be super handy for camping and general handy-man use. I can't wait to see what mods, tweaks and aftermarket options are forthcoming (power systems, on-board air like the 24 trail hunter, etc).
-Why O' Why couldn't they have given us at least a few more gallons in that tank to give closer to a 450-500 mile range (assuming 22-23 mpg)?! I'll be carrying a Jerry can on some of my remote trips!
-I trust Toyota's brilliant engineers and don't have concerns over reliability and have heard that this is not an overly complicated engine/drive train. Many systems are older, tried and true! A video from a knowledgeable mechanic referenced on this forum referenced the fact that Toyota seemed to have designed this for simplicity and ease of maintenance. I'll be putting 25-30K miles a year on this LC as my daily and 3-4 big overland trips yearly, so time will tell. I'll be crossing the 100k mark within 4 years or so! I'll be changing oil every 5K.
-Could the move to a smaller engine be part of the cost savings that this new 250 model offers over the previous 200?
-Is the hybrid 4cyl some move to satisfy inevitable govt. requirements? If so then "it is what it is".

 

[Markarian421]

Still do not see how comparing the 2024 LC with my hybrid sedan or my full electric SUV will help anybody. Let's try to be on-topic because there are already 2187 threads and information is really hard to find.

This is a quote from motor1.com:

“[The motor] is fundamentally designed to really support that part of the torque ramp and power ramp where you know the turbos are coming up to speed,” said Sheldon Brown, chief engineer for the Tacoma. “It helps us with our peak torque and then of course, when our turbo efficiency starts to fall off, it can come back in and assist.”

Thanks yes this exactly. Our other car and the one before it are/were both turbo hybrids, and when you go to accelerate off the line the electric motor's job is to fill in until the turbo gets up to speed. Both of those power trains (VW and Volvo) are nice and smooth and especially the VW felt a lot quicker and more responsive than you'd expect from the numbers. I guess after a decade of that I'm more used to this arrangement? (And not alarmed when the ICE shuts off -- there's still an electric motor to keep you moving. But that does really take some getting used to, it seems very very wrong at first!)

 

[Markarian421]

-Why O' Why couldn't they have given us at least a few more gallons in that tank to give closer to a 450-500 mile range (assuming 22-23 mpg)?! I'll be carrying a Jerry can on some of my remote trips!

That's my disappointment as well -- not the MPG but the range. It will be better than my FJ, but I was really hoping for more like 500 miles as well. (Our other cars have spoiled me.)

 

[LC-120]

I guess after a decade of that I'm more used to this arrangement? (And not alarmed when the ICE shuts off -- there's still an electric motor to keep you moving. But that does really take some getting used to, it seems very very wrong at first!)

I am very happy when the ICE shuts off. This is my main purpose when driving a hybrid, to be on EV mode as much/long as possible.

 

[qberg]

Chances are the fuel tank is sized the way it is at least partially due to space constraints. There's only so much space when you are trying to put a fuel tank, SRA, frame, body, spare tire, prop shaft, and transfer case all in the same basic area. Trucks, with their longer wheelbase and longer vehicle dimensions overall, have more space for big fuel tanks.

 

[fhb]

Chances are the fuel tank is sized the way it is at least partially due to space constraints. There's only so much space when you are trying to put a fuel tank, SRA, frame, body, spare tire, prop shaft, and transfer case all in the same basic area. Trucks, with their longer wheelbase and longer vehicle dimensions overall, have more space for big fuel tanks.

Internationally current LC Prado (very similar vehicle) specs as quoted:

"The Toyota Prado has always been available with dual fuel tanks; the current model has a combined capacity of 150 litres (via an 86-litre main tank and a 63-litre sub-tank), while the previous generation could carry 180 litres."

Also quoted: ...."the new Prado’s fuel tank doesn’t appear to be different to the single 110-litre unit in the 300 Series."

So there must be room but they chose not to do it for NA LC trims. I think this was the diesel but have to confirm.

 

[MarcMarc]

Some of the hybrid parts may take up some of the fuel tank room on the North American-spec Land Cruiser (250 Series) and it might be a GVWR thing too (due to the weight of the hybrid parts). But I would have loved an 86-liter (22.7 U.S. gallon) fuel tank in the USA. The 17.9 U.S gallon (68 liter) fuel tank for the North American-spec Land Cruiser (250 Series) is a bummer. I'll live with it but it's not ideal.

 

[fhb]

Some of the hybrid parts may take up some of the fuel tank room on the North American-spec Land Cruiser (250 Series) and it might be a GVWR thing too (due to the weight of the hybrid parts). But I would have loved an 86-liter (22.7 U.S. gallon) fuel tank in the USA. The 17.9 U.S gallon (68 liter) fuel tank for the North American-spec Land Cruiser (250 Series) is a bummer. I'll live with it but it's not ideal.

I agree. Yeah, you're probably right about the battery. The whole hybrid battery seems was a bit of compromise as far as cargo size and likely fuel tank size.

 

[German88]

Great discussion and lot’s of thought provoking ideas being tossed around. I’ve never waffled more on a vehicle purchase in my life as I have with this new LC. The new powertrain is disappointing on some levels like complexity and underwhelming mpg. Also has a few strengths like hp/tq rating and improved 8 speed tranny which I feel isn’t being talked about enough. My feeling is that one aspect of the new LC will prove to be significant when it comes to driver experience. The older 6 speed although robust was woefully outdated in terms of mapping which is annoying to deal with as a daily. Just so wish this thing had a straight 6 turbo diesel like the new Duramax 3.0 LZ0 going in the new Chevy 1500. That would have been an absolute game change of a rig. 30+ mpg combined all day with 495 ft lbs tq at 1800 rpm. Match made in heaven!

 

[Bedawson]

my current '21 Tocoma access cab, 2wd, 6cyl which this morning gave me the mpg's below. Brand new tank of gas (21 gallon capacity) at the outset of my usual 30 mile morning commute (nearly 90% of the drive at 80mph on interstate with only four short idling stoplights, AC on but not a hot day, and only me in the truck, no cargo). Avg mpg at the end of the drive 23.6 - not too shabby!

Not bad! my 20 Tacoma on 33's got a high of 18. Granted I had a roof rack and bed rack. Traded mine in on the LC also.
I'm currently driving an '18 F-150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost on 34's and its getting 19-21 mpg. almost 1k lbs more than the taco also.

For me its more about the range. Better fuel economy = more range = less time at the pump! Hopefully, there will be room under the LC for a bigger fuel cell

our other vehicle is an EV so that eases the monthly gas bill

 

[fhb]

Great discussion and lot’s of thought provoking ideas being tossed around. I’ve never waffled more on a vehicle purchase in my life as I have with this new LC. The new powertrain is disappointing on some levels like complexity and underwhelming mpg. Also has a few strengths like hp/tq rating and improved 8 speed tranny which I feel isn’t being talked about enough. My feeling is that one aspect of the new LC will prove to be significant when it comes to driver experience. The older 6 speed although robust was woefully outdated in terms of mapping which is annoying to deal with as a daily. Just so wish this thing had a straight 6 turbo diesel like the new Duramax 3.0 LZ0 going in the new Chevy 1500. That would have been an absolute game change of a rig. 30+ mpg combined all day with 495 ft lbs tq at 1800 rpm. Match made in heaven!

I've certainly considered the diesels on the GM/Chevy SUV twins. Better tow capacity, bigger cargo area, longer range etc. They are also quite pricey even compared to an LC. The LZO engine will be a step improvement for sure. I've been around diesels for awhile on the Ag industry side so they are not a technological or logistics concern for me. However, the exterior and interior looks are somewhat less appealing (to me) and then their reliability vs Toyota needs to be considered.

 

[qberg]

Just so wish this thing had a straight 6 turbo diesel like the new Duramax 3.0 LZ0 going in the new Chevy 1500. That would have been an absolute game change of a rig. 30+ mpg combined all day with 495 ft lbs tq at 1800 rpm. Match made in heaven!

23-26mpg seems to be the actual gas mileage most people get in the 3.0 diesel 1500.

Chevrolet Silverado 1500 MPG - Actual MPG from 347 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 owners

The most accurate Chevrolet Silverado 1500 MPG estimates based on real world results of 6.2 million miles driven in 347 Chevrolet Silverado 1500s

www.fuelly.com

 

[shwazz714]

I also took a strong look at the gmc/chevy duramax options in their suv and trucks. Based off my rudimentary review it was 50/50 of no issues or non-stop issues.

One of my main attractions to the LC is the (hopefully) amazing Toyota reliability.

 

[German88]

I've certainly considered the diesels on the GM/Chevy SUV twins. Better tow capacity, bigger cargo area, longer range etc. They are also quite pricey even compared to an LC. The LZO engine will be a step improvement for sure. I've been around diesels for awhile on the Ag industry side so they are not a technological or logistics concern for me. However, the exterior and interior looks are somewhat less appealing (to me) and then their reliability vs Toyota needs to be considered.

Good point on the GM. Seats in the 1500 look uncomfortable with very little contouring. Sad considering the price. I do love the new dash layout though and the zR2 has some nice suspension going on.

 

[German88]

I also took a strong look at the gmc/chevy duramax options in their suv and trucks. Based off my rudimentary review it was 50/50 of no issues or non-stop issues.

One of my main attractions to the LC is the (hopefully) amazing Toyota reliability.

Researching it myself it’s really tough to sift the good info vs cluelessness these days. Seems like Chevy is digging deep though to improve overall quality. Time will tell… back on track, still trying to fit myself into the LC once the initial hype draws down. I can live with the mpg’s as long as we get longevity and reliability.

 

[jeffpz]

As I anticipate delivery of my LC Trim level LC, it's interesting to pontificate on Toyota's motivation for these 4cyl hybrid engines.
My only point of reference is my current '21 Tocoma access cab, 2wd, 6cyl which this morning gave me the mpg's below. Brand new tank of gas (21 gallon capacity) at the outset of my usual 30 mile morning commute (nearly 90% of the drive at 80mph on interstate with only four short idling stoplights, AC on but not a hot day, and only me in the truck, no cargo). Avg mpg at the end of the drive 23.6 - not too shabby!
View attachment 2297

Like many of those on this great forum, I've obsessively watched and consumed every bit of content I can find on this forum and YouTube regarding the engineering of the engine in our new LC's and I think I understand the basics.
FWIW, here are some of my thoughts:
-The LC -5038lbs - will be heavier than my little Tocoma -3915lbs (which I'll be trading towards it) and the LC will give us the benefit of full time 4wd, so I'm sure the same 6cyl engine wouldn't have been nearly as efficient in the LC. Perhaps that's why Toyota decided to find the perfect mix of a smaller engine to burn less gas, but boost it with turbo and an electric motor to bring the power back up to what a NA 6cyl would offer.
-The electric motor torque will be cool to access off-road and occasionally on-road when needed, which my 6cy (non-turbo) Tacoma doesn't have.
-The big inverter will be super handy for camping and general handy-man use. I can't wait to see what mods, tweaks and aftermarket options are forthcoming (power systems, on-board air like the 24 trail hunter, etc).
-Why O' Why couldn't they have given us at least a few more gallons in that tank to give closer to a 450-500 mile range (assuming 22-23 mpg)?! I'll be carrying a Jerry can on some of my remote trips!
-I trust Toyota's brilliant engineers and don't have concerns over reliability and have heard that this is not an overly complicated engine/drive train. Many systems are older, tried and true! A video from a knowledgeable mechanic referenced on this forum referenced the fact that Toyota seemed to have designed this for simplicity and ease of maintenance. I'll be putting 25-30K miles a year on this LC as my daily and 3-4 big overland trips yearly, so time will tell. I'll be crossing the 100k mark within 4 years or so! I'll be changing oil every 5K.
-Could the move to a smaller engine be part of the cost savings that this new 250 model offers over the previous 200?
-Is the hybrid 4cyl some move to satisfy inevitable govt. requirements? If so then "it is what it is".

Yes a larger tank would make a lot of sense. I have a Hybrid Highlander and I'm lucky to get 15 gallons in the 17.1 gallon tank. Hybrids reserve 2 gallons, so I'm guessing the most you can get in the cruiser is around 16 gallons. If you're on the hwy at 75 mph, you're probably getting 20 mpg at best, or a range of 320 miles.

 

[Impatient]

I also took a strong look at the gmc/chevy duramax options in their suv and trucks. Based off my rudimentary review it was 50/50 of no issues or non-stop issues.

One of my main attractions to the LC is the (hopefully) amazing Toyota reliability.

The best vehicle I ever had was a bmw station wagon with the B57 diesel with twin turbos. Thing moved, got about 45 mpg, and is unavailable in the US (I had a used one, a 2008, that I bought while living in Europe). It’s a shame the emissions standards here keep diesel tech from developing here.

 

[LC-120]

I'll be crossing the 100k mark within 4 years or so! I'll be changing oil every 5K.
-Could the move to a smaller engine be part of the cost savings that this new 250 model offers

What oil do you use for 5K ? What is the oil and interval recommended by Toyota?
Regarding the 2.4T hybrid this is not about cost saving but about power and torque for US. 326 HP and 465 lb-ft (630 Nm) is huge for the Landcruser Prado. In other markets the LC250 keeps the old 4cyl 2.8l engine 200 HP and 500Nm.. With some improvements and next year with a Mild Hybrid system.

Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[agjake01]

Yes a larger tank would make a lot of sense. I have a Hybrid Highlander and I'm lucky to get 15 gallons in the 17.1 gallon tank. Hybrids reserve 2 gallons, so I'm guessing the most you can get in the cruiser is around 16 gallons. If you're on the hwy at 75 mph, you're probably getting 20 mpg at best, or a range of 320 miles.

Not advocating for using this for fuel.. but just saying an extra 14gal would be pretty nice!

Specifications - Trail'd

Boondocker Checkout Order Confirmation Boondocker Specifications Capacity 14-Gallon Dimensions 29″x6.5″ Customization Two brass 3/4″ NPT female fittings allow for endless customization possibilities. CapacityCenter Lift Point O.D. 6.9″, I.D. 4.3″, and thickness of 2.4″ at the center most point...

trailedonline.com

Coupled with the spare on the RiG’d ultra swing

UltraSwing™ Multi-Fit Spare Tire Hitch Mount | RiGd Supply

The UltraSwing™ Multi-Fit spare tire hitch mount is a swing-out tire carrier designed for mid-size trucks and SUVs including Tacoma, Lexus GX, and Subaru.

www.rigdsupply.com

Would be pretty nice!

 

[EOD Guy]

If you're hanging the spare off the bumper...... here's this, kind of spendy tho"