Ineos is the new Laforza

[Doc57]

Without intending to offend anyone, and solely to clarify some of the claims being made, and especially if you'd like to know the truth about the Ineos Grenadier project, here are some facts for your information:

- Ineos has nothing to do with Land Rover. Sir Jim Ratcliffe tried to buy the Defender patent when it ceased production, but they refused to sell it to him. Later, Tata, owner of Jaguar/Land Rover, sued him for plagiarism, a lawsuit that was unsuccessful in court.

- Ineos's capital is not, as some have suggested, from a group of Middle Eastern investors. It's a personal investment by Jim Ratcliffe, who owns INEOS, a large petrochemical company, and is also one of the richest people in England. - The car has nothing English about it, as some claim. Its design was carried out by Magna Steyr, who, as some of you may know, have been designing the Mercedes G-Class for many years. It has Carraro axles, renowned in the 4x4 world, Brembo brakes, Recaro seats, a top-of-the-line BMW engine, and is assembled at the Mercedes factory in France (Jim Ratcliffe is also one of the owners of the Mercedes F1 team). With these credentials, the Ineos Grenadier went on sale.

- It is true that the initial idea for the car, "to be as mechanical as possible" or "as little automated as possible," was hampered by the homologation regulations that were incorporated during its development. This led to the addition of technology to the initial project that didn't always mesh well with the original concept.

Okay, I don't want to make this any longer, I just want to say that as a former owner of an Ineos Grenadier Trialmaster Diesel, I can assure you it's an amazing 4x4. I'd even venture to say it's one of the best on the market, along with the Mercedes G-Class and Toyota, although they're not exactly comparable vehicles. The Ineos is undoubtedly more rugged, the current Mercedes G-Class is more focused on luxury, and the Land Cruiser is perhaps somewhere in between.

Here's a link if you'd like to know more:

La historia del Ineos Grenadier: un millonario, una demanda por plagio y el intento de salvar al Land Rover Defender

El 29 de enero de 2016 será recordado como un día especial en la industria del automóvil y, en especial, en Solihull (Inglaterra) donde Land Rover mantiene...

www.xataka.com

This was my Ineos

 

[Bighorn Tremor]

Without intending to offend anyone, and solely to clarify some of the claims being made, and especially if you'd like to know the truth about the Ineos Grenadier project, here are some facts for your information:

- Ineos has nothing to do with Land Rover. Sir Jim Ratcliffe tried to buy the Defender patent when it ceased production, but they refused to sell it to him. Later, Tata, owner of Jaguar/Land Rover, sued him for plagiarism, a lawsuit that was unsuccessful in court.

- Ineos's capital is not, as some have suggested, from a group of Middle Eastern investors. It's a personal investment by Jim Ratcliffe, who owns INEOS, a large petrochemical company, and is also one of the richest people in England. - The car has nothing English about it, as some claim. Its design was carried out by Magna Steyr, who, as some of you may know, have been designing the Mercedes G-Class for many years. It has Carraro axles, renowned in the 4x4 world, Brembo brakes, Recaro seats, a top-of-the-line BMW engine, and is assembled at the Mercedes factory in France (Jim Ratcliffe is also one of the owners of the Mercedes F1 team). With these credentials, the Ineos Grenadier went on sale.

- It is true that the initial idea for the car, "to be as mechanical as possible" or "as little automated as possible," was hampered by the homologation regulations that were incorporated during its development. This led to the addition of technology to the initial project that didn't always mesh well with the original concept.

Okay, I don't want to make this any longer, I just want to say that as a former owner of an Ineos Grenadier Trialmaster Diesel, I can assure you it's an amazing 4x4. I'd even venture to say it's one of the best on the market, along with the Mercedes G-Class and Toyota, although they're not exactly comparable vehicles. The Ineos is undoubtedly more rugged, the current Mercedes G-Class is more focused on luxury, and the Land Cruiser is perhaps somewhere in between.

Here's a link if you'd like to know more:

La historia del Ineos Grenadier: un millonario, una demanda por plagio y el intento de salvar al Land Rover Defender

El 29 de enero de 2016 será recordado como un día especial en la industria del automóvil y, en especial, en Solihull (Inglaterra) donde Land Rover mantiene...

www.xataka.com

This was my Ineos

View attachment 61617

^^^ This!

I was interested in an INEOS Grenadier, but two things kept me away:
-The steering for highway driving is poor; has bad on-center feel.
-The closest dealer is 400 miles away. This also precluded any LR or BMW vehicles because they have the same distance problem. Toyota dealer is less than a mile from my house.

All reports say the Grenadier is a great vehicle that fixed the issues with the old Defender. Proven BMW engine and transmission, Puch 4WD components, minimal electronic nannies, well thought out design.

 

[Doc57]

^^^ This!

I was interested in an INEOS Grenadier, but two things kept me away:
-The steering for highway driving is poor; has bad on-center feel.
-The closest dealer is 400 miles away. This also precluded any LR or BMW vehicles because they have the same distance problem. Toyota dealer is less than a mile from my house.

All reports say the Grenadier is a great vehicle that fixed the issues with the old Defender. Proven BMW engine and transmission, Puch 4WD components, minimal electronic nannies, well thought out design.

The steering wasn't a problem for me, having owned several Defenders before; it worked much better than in these. Even so, I recognize that for someone who hasn't driven cars with recirculating ball steering and is used to rack and pinion or electric steering, the Ineos's steering feels strange until you get used to it. Once you do, it's even fun.

I bought the Land Cruiser for the same reason you mentioned. When I unfortunately lost my Granadier, You can read it here. Local Area Thread - Me he quedado sin el coche , Destino, mala Suerte o simplemente tenia que pasar,
I didn't buy another one because the dealer in my area had closed, and the nearest one was 700 km from my house. My Toyota dealership is only 6 km away. At first, I struggled to get used to the Toyota's 2.8 D engine; I preferred the way the BMW inline-six ran. The engine/transmission combination in the Ineos is a delight, but once I got used to the Toyota, I'm happy with my choice.

 

[GR8Santini]

Sorry Doc -Mother nature can sure have a serious side. Flown relief missions around the world, and floods are some of the toughest on humanity. That was quite the disaster you went through.
Glad you’re safe.

 

[Doc57]

Sorry Doc -Mother nature can sure have a serious side. Flown relief missions around the world, and floods are some of the toughest on humanity. That was quite the disaster you went through.
Glad you’re safe.

Thanks GR, it really was a catastrophe of unprecedented scale. It happened a year and a half ago, and the area is still trying to recover. Luckily, in my case, it was only material damage, but the devastation was immense. It cost the lives of 229 people, affected 80 towns (half of them completely wiped out), and destroyed more than 125,000 vehicles by the force of the water. So I'm grateful to still be around. Take care, my friend.

 

[TheMightyGoose]

Without intending to offend anyone, and solely to clarify some of the claims being made, and especially if you'd like to know the truth about the Ineos Grenadier project, here are some facts for your information:

- Ineos has nothing to do with Land Rover. Sir Jim Ratcliffe tried to buy the Defender patent when it ceased production, but they refused to sell it to him. Later, Tata, owner of Jaguar/Land Rover, sued him for plagiarism, a lawsuit that was unsuccessful in court.

- Ineos's capital is not, as some have suggested, from a group of Middle Eastern investors. It's a personal investment by Jim Ratcliffe, who owns INEOS, a large petrochemical company, and is also one of the richest people in England. - The car has nothing English about it, as some claim. Its design was carried out by Magna Steyr, who, as some of you may know, have been designing the Mercedes G-Class for many years. It has Carraro axles, renowned in the 4x4 world, Brembo brakes, Recaro seats, a top-of-the-line BMW engine, and is assembled at the Mercedes factory in France (Jim Ratcliffe is also one of the owners of the Mercedes F1 team). With these credentials, the Ineos Grenadier went on sale.

- It is true that the initial idea for the car, "to be as mechanical as possible" or "as little automated as possible," was hampered by the homologation regulations that were incorporated during its development. This led to the addition of technology to the initial project that didn't always mesh well with the original concept.

Okay, I don't want to make this any longer, I just want to say that as a former owner of an Ineos Grenadier Trialmaster Diesel, I can assure you it's an amazing 4x4. I'd even venture to say it's one of the best on the market, along with the Mercedes G-Class and Toyota, although they're not exactly comparable vehicles. The Ineos is undoubtedly more rugged, the current Mercedes G-Class is more focused on luxury, and the Land Cruiser is perhaps somewhere in between.

Here's a link if you'd like to know more:

La historia del Ineos Grenadier: un millonario, una demanda por plagio y el intento de salvar al Land Rover Defender

El 29 de enero de 2016 será recordado como un día especial en la industria del automóvil y, en especial, en Solihull (Inglaterra) donde Land Rover mantiene...

www.xataka.com

This was my Ineos

View attachment 61617

I don’t question the quality. I think it was well executed. I just don’t see it continuing to be a viable company after the current owner’s enthusiasm for the brand dies off. I do hope I’m wrong. It’s good for the entire industry to have people pushing it forward. But I see it being bought by a company without a vision. You know, someone like GM who will readily kill the brand with ineptitude and a complete lack of imagination, vision, or ability to maintain quality control. But GM already killed Hummer, and their attempt to resurrect the brand is just pathetic. So they probably learned their lesson. Or maybe the bosses there are even dumber than I imagine and they'll try a fresh start with Ineos. Either way they kill it. I just don’t see any other brands out there who will feel like Ineos is the missing piece of their lineup. What brand could? Sadly I think most brands could only kill it. It already has a BMW engine. So anyone other than BMW is going to have to completely reimagine it or leave it a completely stand alone company. And for that, it will have to prove to have an extremely promising future. Will be interesting to watch it unfold. I wish them luck. They are such a beautiful SUV! I wish the old dude partnered with Toyota and put a Toyota turbo diesel in it! With the promise of Toyoa keeping it alive and ensuring a supply chain for the future and a robust global dealer network? I'd possibly have one in my driveway right now instead of the LC250! Could it have been the Grand Land Cruiser?? LOL

 

[PDPete]

I never looked at MSRP for the Ineos to put one into consideration when I was shopping for a new ride, but I am pretty sure I'll be happy with the Land Cruiser.

To me, the MSPR doesn't really matter...

The Ineos Grenadier looks awesome. A lot of stuff I've seen and read about them makes they seem awesome as well ... but even if the MSRP was cheaper than a LC, I wouldn't have considered buying one for myself... when buying a vehicle like that, you have to consider additional costs of ownership. A lack of dealership networks and uncertainty over a new company's ability to supply parts and support, let alone even exist for more than a flash in the pan, make buying something like a Grenadier a much riskier proposition compared a Toyota. I've heard reports of early buyers being disappointed that the company failed to live up to certain promises already as well...

I've often said that if I had the money and space for it, I'd love to import an old 70 series cruiser as a "weekend vehicle", but I'd never want one as a daily driver...same for this, even if for slightly different reasons...but the point is that I'd have to be able afford much more than just the MSRP to consider an Ineos.

 

[GrayBeard]

I parked next to one last week and it was the first time in a year of LC250 ownership I looked at another car and thought, "Damn...maybe that wasn't the right decision".
But...

• It's honestly got more off road chops than I need and the price (literal and figurative) for that wasn't worth it because of that
• I do question as Mighty Goose does what the future is long term
• It simply doesn't have the track record that a Toyota does (though it may in time)

One interesting thought, but I don't know enough engineering to know if this is even viable: with Toyota's purported desire to spin of "Land Cruiser" as a brand, could this have a place in that lineup? How much work to change over to Toyota mechanical components? Could Toyota make the Grenadier into a platform that can be built in a luxury form for mall crawling (understanding the Lexus complication there) as well as a stripped down form for more utilitarian use?

 

[TheMightyGoose]

To me, the MSPR doesn't really matter...

The Ineos Grenadier looks awesome. A lot of stuff I've seen and read about them makes they seem awesome as well ... but even if the MSRP was cheaper than a LC, I wouldn't have considered buying one for myself... when buying a vehicle like that, you have to consider additional costs of ownership. A lack of dealership networks and uncertainty over a new company's ability to supply parts and support, let alone even exist for more than a flash in the pan, make buying something like a Grenadier a much riskier proposition compared a Toyota. I've heard reports of early buyers being disappointed that the company failed to live up to certain promises already as well...

I've often said that if I had the money and space for it, I'd love to import an old 70 series cruiser as a "weekend vehicle", but I'd never want one as a daily driver...same for this, even if for slightly different reasons...but the point is that I'd have to be able afford much more than just the MSRP to consider an Ineos.

If I had Ineos kind of money to spend on a "cool" car, I"d get one of those 62 series LC with the 4.7L or 5.7L V8. It's like checking "All Of The Above" boxes. LOL

 

[TheMightyGoose]

Then I came across this:

https://www.autoblog.com/news/ineos-might-be-on-the-way-out-and-thats-a-shame

 

[WeGo250]

The Ineos seems to be a great concept, aesthetics, capability, OEM customization, BUT, a BMW engine? Noooooo thank you! And I don't say that as just an off the shelf hatred for BMW products, but they are finicky, and when put into another mfg's chassis? Hmmm..... And like another member posted, their local dealer is a Nissan shop. So do you take it to Nissan for everything but powertrain, and BMW for powertain support? OR worse, do you take an Ineos to a Nissan dealer to have your BMW powertrain serviced?

All simply thoughts and questions, not real assumptions or statements......

 

[TheMightyGoose]

The Ineos seems to be a great concept, aesthetics, capability, OEM customization, BUT, a BMW engine? Noooooo thank you! And I don't say that as just an off the shelf hatred for BMW products, but they are finicky, and when put into another mfg's chassis? Hmmm..... And like another member posted, their local dealer is a Nissan shop. So do you take it to Nissan for everything but powertrain, and BMW for powertain support? OR worse, do you take an Ineos to a Nissan dealer to have your BMW powertrain serviced?

All simply thoughts and questions, not real assumptions or statements......

Considering how Nissan is reported to be near collapse, it’s almost fitting Ineos partnered with them in your area. I don’t think they even have an official dealer network for the US market. Which makes ownership even more discouraging.

 

[AlexGates]

The upgrades they made to the 2026 are welcome. No dealer around here, apparently they have an agreement with some BMW service departments. I want one, but I’m out of space. I hate the aircraft switches interior.

There is an Aussie on YT who compares it to the 70 Series, interesting watch.

 

[Truckee]

The Ineos seems to be a great concept, aesthetics, capability, OEM customization, BUT, a BMW engine? Noooooo thank you! And I don't say that as just an off the shelf hatred for BMW products, but they are finicky, and when put into another mfg's chassis? Hmmm..... And like another member posted, their local dealer is a Nissan shop. So do you take it to Nissan for everything but powertrain, and BMW for powertain support? OR worse, do you take an Ineos to a Nissan dealer to have your BMW powertrain serviced?

The BMW B58 motor (in the Ineos) is an exceptional engine and arguably BMW's best engine to date. It was named "Ward's 10 best Engines, five times." Toyota was even confident enough to put their name on a vehicle with the B58/ZF8HP drivetrain (Supra).

The B58's are commonly making 700 rwhp on stock internals. The INEOS uses the ZF 8HP51 that's been out for many years now and has already proven itself, reliable and robust.

 

[WeGo250]

I did not know that!! Wow! As I stated my opinion wasn't based in what I thought to be fact or general hatred, just off the cuff.