Adaptive cruise almost caused an accident

[GrayBeard]

I think you have some fundamental misunderstanding for these ADAS features. They are never designed to be reliable features. You can call them gimmicky even. What is the point using it if at the end of the day the driver is still fully responsible for any mistake it made?

Speaking from my past professional ADAS experience, a thorough testing is next to impossible. You only guarantee the HW/SW works within its design scope, not outside. I can test my radar behave normal between -40 to 85C, or ACC software faithfully execute its code line by line. But the road has infinite amount of exceptions to handle, even for a small subsystem. Since it never meant to design a fail proof system, the testing coverage is never designed to cover much exceptions on the vehicle level. I think all automakers are aligned in their positions and from what I can see they are all forward enough to inform their customers. The statement is just often getting obscured by all the marketing and sales guys advertising its features. You can’t really blame automakers at all. Even Tesla couldn’t fail proof their basic ACC as we already see in numerous incidents. They ALWAYS tell public that drivers are responsible for the car, no matter how much irresponsible statements Elon Musk gave in the media. That is simply just what it means to be a level 2 vehicle, Toyota or Tesla doesn’t change its role.

The best ADAS system I can see today is Mercedes. They claim to be level 3, which means in limited amount of situations they can actually be hold responsible for accidents. So they will actually test a wider range of scenarios. Although I highly doubt in the event of an accident you can litigate them much. In the event of bad weather their system will probably refuse to take the control anyway. And you can’t never count on them in local road. I am pretty sure they will write down those in a bigger or smaller print somewhere.

Regarding the bad weather, my wife's Volvo disables all of the assist functions (and gives a visual and audible warning of the fact) when there is heavy enough rain to degrade the sensors, FWIW. I'm sure the LC is the same. To be fair, it was in pretty severe driving rain; I wasn't comfortable with using any assists in that weather, but it even affected the auto headlight function which I had left on.

 

[ultane]

I don’t mind the criticism. As we all know, some folks thrive on that, and can’t help going all Foghorn Leghorn. My blame for Toyota comes from them not being a little more forward with the limitations of this system. If they did thorough testing prior to fielding it, I’m sure they are aware of this. Should they let their customers know?

Take me out of the picture. Someone is on adaptive cruise slowing down for a stop and life is good. The kids start fighting in the back seat, and they turn their head to yell at them. Same thing transpires. I use this as an example after my kid got t-boned at 20 MPH by a grandmother coming out of her driveway - facing our vehicle.

Like I said, it’s easy to get lulled into a sense that something is going to perform as expected when it has done so hundreds of times. That’s exactly why I delayed my reaction waiting for it to resume braking.

You’re free to use this system. Or not. Personally, I’d like to know if there’s a potential for something to go sideways.

Overall, adaptive cruise is a good feature. I’m not as impressed with lane centering, and can’t stand constantly fighting the steering assist. That one doesn’t get used at all. Maybe if I lived out in the desert with endless straight highways.

Have you read the owners manual that discusses the system?

You waited, for it to do its job? Just TURN IT OFF. Or continue using it and learn how it actually works.

Miss Daisy doesn’t fight with me.. she makes suggestions, and I either allow, or override her choices. Try it sometime..

 

[bluebullet]

Virginia must be a really easy state to get a driver's license, no common sense required.
View attachment 35775

Careful, now. That's where I got mine at age 15. Dad got transferred to NJ/Brooklyn Navy Yard and had to wait 2 years to get a license again. Had a very good driver's training course prior to getting license in VA.

 

[bluebullet]

Have you read the owners manual that discusses the system?

You waited, for it to do its job? Just TURN IT OFF. Or continue using it and learn how it actually works.

Miss Daisy doesn’t fight with me.. she makes suggestions, and I either allow, or override her choices. Try it sometime..

Mine keeps telling me to Sit Up when I am Sitting up.

 

[ultane]

Mine keeps telling me to Sit Up when I am Sitting up.

I hear ya’! Miss Daisy does that when I drive with my left arm at the one o’clock position on the steering wheel, blocking the camera. I wish Toyota could figure out a way to fix this. Probably shouldn’t have my arm up there anyway, in case I have a front end collision. I bet those airbags would mess me up..

 

[Nift250]

Just wanted to say thanks to OP for posting this scenario. The people scolding you are missing the point.

I've had similar experiences in traffic with the system tracking the vehicle moving out of the lane and then failing to immediately pick up the 'new' follow vehicle, even in non-stop light scenarios.

Like most others here I agree that the ACC system should be used on long highway trips and does wonders for making that kind of driving less stressful/tiring but it does slow your flow with regard to more accurate passing speeds, which may be a net positive but I know that it makes me a more annoying vehicle to follow because I don't do the passing as aggressively as I would otherwise to maintain hwy speeds.

To the Volvo comment about inclement weather causing the system to disable. I've experienced the same while driving thru a snow storm in the 250. The sensors were snowed/iced over and the system turned off. Which is good and I probably shouldn't have been using ACC in that weather setting.

That said overall ACC is great but yes you must remain vigilant at all times and I would agree with that using it on open highway is by far the best use case vs. any in town driving.

 

[EOD Guy]

I think the counter-point is: YOU are the only one responsible for your driving..........

 

[Marinna]

Just wanted to say thanks to OP for posting this scenario. The people scolding you are missing the point.

I've had similar experiences in traffic with the system tracking the vehicle moving out of the lane and then failing to immediately pick up the 'new' follow vehicle, even in non-stop light scenarios.

Like most others here I agree that the ACC system should be used on long highway trips and does wonders for making that kind of driving less stressful/tiring but it does slow your flow with regard to more accurate passing speeds, which may be a net positive but I know that it makes me a more annoying vehicle to follow because I don't do the passing as aggressively as I would otherwise to maintain hwy speeds.

To the Volvo comment about inclement weather causing the system to disable. I've experienced the same while driving thru a snow storm in the 250. The sensors were snowed/iced over and the system turned off. Which is good and I probably shouldn't have been using ACC in that weather setting.

That said overall ACC is great but yes you must remain vigilant at all times and I would agree with that using it on open highway is by far the best use case vs. any in town driving.

Once you realize that the relieve you get from the entire ADAS system can be achieved by simply keeping more distance away from other and drive defensively, you will reach to a conclusion that they are all completely useless.

 

[SamHendrick]

I have a 2024 RAV4, a 2025 Prius and recently bought a 2025 LC. The RAV has TSS 2.5. It's Adaptive Cruise Control doesn’t slow as soon (from away from vehicle in front of me) as I would like. The Prius is TSS 3.0 and is better and the LC is amazing! But, to address your questioning why the LC didn’t seem to acquire the new vehicle it was presented with when the truck left the lane to avoid impacting the Hyundai. My “guess” is that TSS uses a combination of cameras and radar for calculating braking distances. The ping rate and image processing is just not that fast. You setting the maximum vehicle spacing and remaining vigilant is the best practice. Safe driving all

 

[ultane]

Just wanted to say thanks to OP for posting this scenario. The people scolding you are missing the point.

Welcome to the asylum Nift250.

I don’t think we missed the point. We are just sick and tired of owners blaming their LC’s for their own lack of caution, experience, or whatever..

Okay. I’m off my soapbox.

 

[ultane]

I have a 2024 RAV4, a 2025 Prius and recently bought a 2025 LC. The RAV has TSS 2.5. It's Adaptive Cruise Control doesn’t slow as soon (from away from vehicle in front of me) as I would like. The Prius is TSS 3.0 and is better and the LC is amazing! But, to address your questioning why the LC didn’t seem to acquire the new vehicle it was presented with when the truck left the lane to avoid impacting the Hyundai. My “guess” is that TSS uses a combination of cameras and radar for calculating braking distances. The ping rate and image processing is just not that fast. You setting the maximum vehicle spacing and remaining vigilant is the best practice. Safe driving all

Welcome to the asylum SamHendrick.

 

[EOD Guy]

I have a 2024 RAV4, a 2025 Prius and recently bought a 2025 LC. The RAV has TSS 2.5. It's Adaptive Cruise Control doesn’t slow as soon (from away from vehicle in front of me) as I would like. The Prius is TSS 3.0 and is better and the LC is amazing! But, to address your questioning why the LC didn’t seem to acquire the new vehicle it was presented with when the truck left the lane to avoid impacting the Hyundai. My “guess” is that TSS uses a combination of cameras and radar for calculating braking distances. The ping rate and image processing is just not that fast. You setting the maximum vehicle spacing and remaining vigilant is the best practice. Safe driving all

Welcome to the Jungle!

 

[Nift250]

Welcome to the asylum Nift250.

I don’t think we missed the point. We are just sick and tired of owners blaming their LC’s for their own lack of caution, experience, or whatever..

Okay. I’m off my soapbox.

Well I don't think OP was blaming the system. More describing its limitations in hopes to educate others, which I see no problem with?

 

[Nostr0m0]

Well I don't think OP was blaming the system. More describing its limitations in hopes to educate others, which I see no problem with?

The title definitely words it in a way where it's 100% the cruise controls fault at least in my interpretation.

 

[wpage]

For newer drivers unfamiliar with some of these options. It can be confusing on how to not only set. but safely use the safety features....

Tesla owners are currently suing for problems such as described here. As others have said. In the end its operators responsibilty to safely drive. You could injure or worse to others and yourself, if you fail to operate correctly.

 

[Dr. T]

I must be really old fashioned…….I turn off ALL the nags and nannys possible. Never use any type of cruise control. Try to keep my mind 100% on the task at hand which is driving not going along for the ride……..I think I’m a dinosaur. The thought of owning a self-driving car makes me shudder.

 

[Marinna]

I must be really old fashioned…….I turn off ALL the nags and nannys possible. Never use any type of cruise control. Try to keep my mind 100% on the task at hand which is driving not going along for the ride……..I think I’m a dinosaur. The thought of owning a self-driving car makes me shudder.

I actually think most of them are good. Just imagine yourself as a pilot. The airplane can not be fly totally manual with crazy level of safety requirements. If you are a serious driver, you can be 100% manual driving, still these chimes and warnings wouldn’t compromise your safety at all.

Tech adds the complexity of our vehicles by orders of magnitude. You are paying not just for the car already but insurance company charge you everyday for owning it. So you might as well just using it. It never hurts your chance being a safe driver if you learn how to use them right.

 

[Dr. T]

Some chimes and warnings are fine. I like the blind spot warning on the side mirrors but hate the seatbelt chime. It’s the autonomous driving aids I don’t have any use for. Auto pilot to allow me to occupy my mind with things other than driving???………checking my messages, answering emails, watching a video……..no thanks, I’ll pass.

 

[bluebullet]

I must be really old fashioned…….I turn off ALL the nags and nannys possible. Never use any type of cruise control. Try to keep my mind 100% on the task at hand which is driving not going along for the ride……..I think I’m a dinosaur. The thought of owning a self-driving car makes me shudder.

 

[Sugarloafer80]

I was going 58 on adaptive cruise. I was steering. The truck and trailer in front of me started slowing when he saw the red light. Adaptive cruise started slowing along with the vehicle I was following. There was already a car stopped ahead at the intersection. The left lane was open, and the truck swerved into the open lane, leaving the stopped car in front of me. With the truck out of my lane, the adaptive cruise didn’t do anything. It didn’t speed up. It didn’t continue braking. No alarms. Almost like it just gave up because it got confused. The stopped car was well within the range that it would normally be detected, but it wasn’t. I got on the brakes after realizing that adaptive cruise wasn’t going to. Out of literally hundreds of times, this is the first time it failed to detect something directly ahead. Almost like it was locked onto the trailer being towed by the truck, and when it moved out of the way, it just stopped looking.

Adaptive can be just as sharp as a drunk human. I'll be dead before I rely on that crapola.