New 2024 Land Cruiser

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but this just sucks!

1. Don't blindly trust ANY dealer
2. Read everything before you sign it (maybe nobody does, but that is on us then)
3. Check all the numbers
4. Make sure that you fully understand everything you sign
5. See #1
Some of the best advice I've seen on this Forum!
 
I'm not a lawyer and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but this just sucks!

1. Don't blindly trust ANY dealer
2. Read everything before you sign it (maybe nobody does, but that is on us then)
3. Check all the numbers
4. Make sure that you fully understand everything you sign
5. See #1
I know
 
Hi Gina,

Congrats on the new Land Cruiser - I'm sure you'll enjoy it for a long time!

In case you're interested (and maybe you're not), there may be some recourse for you through the Arkansas Motor Vehicle Commission. Might be worth reporting your dealer at the least. You wouldn't have to go through the hassle and expense of hiring a lawyer. Might be worth trying.

 

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So you're saying that if I call a dealer on the phone and they state to me that they'll sell at MSPR and I go to the dealership and they write up a deal that's over MSRP, that I can sue for damages, even if I don't agree or sign?.... Nuts

Until a contract is signed (purchase agreement is a contract) there are no binding terms that must be followed.

Without a signed contract (purchase agreement is a contract) you would be entitled to zip
The State can sue the dealership if it violates state law in some way. In AK it would violate fair trade law and we’re seeing Swickard dealerships in Anchorage find that out. They supposedly did this same exact thing.
 
The State can sue the dealership if it violates state law in some way. In AK it would violate fair trade law and we’re seeing Swickard dealerships in Anchorage find that out. They supposedly did this same exact thing.
I just refuse to believe that unless actual damages have been incurred, you can be sued for "word of mouth". A printed, virtual ad or contract/purchase agreement that stated something like "final out the door price" or "all inclusive price" is "X" dollars and then "X" dollars is added to that figure at the time of signing, I agree is illegal. Every advertisement I've seen on Toyota's site states "call dealer for price".
 
So you're saying that if I call a dealer on the phone and they state to me that they'll sell at MSPR and I go to the dealership and they write up a deal that's over MSRP, that I can sue for damages, even if I don't agree or sign?

Until a contract is signed (purchase agreement is a contract) there are no binding terms that must be followed.

Without a signed contract (purchase agreement is a contract) you would be entitled to zip compensation.

I just refuse to believe that unless actual damages have been incurred, you can be sued for "word of mouth". A printed, virtual ad or contract/purchase agreement that stated something like "final out the door price" or "all inclusive price" is "X" dollars and then "X" dollars is added to that figure at the time of signing, I agree is illegal. Every advertisement I've seen on Toyota's site states "call dealer for price".
With all due respect, I am a corporate lawyer. There are many elements which comprise the making of a contract. A contract is not only created at the time of signing. There are many factors involved leading to the creation of a signed contract as well as subsequent to the execution of contract. Damages can be brought as a result of actions pre/post execution.
 
With all due respect, I am a corporate lawyer. There are many elements which comprise the making of a contract. A contract is not only created at the time of signing. There are many factors involved leading to the creation of a signed contract as well as subsequent to the execution of contract. Damages can be brought as a result of actions pre/post execution.
And that's what's wrong with this word we live in. The mentality that if you don't like what someone says to you, you can sue them for damages....... regardless if you incurred any actual damages. IMO there should be a Federal law along the lines of ....... if you sue someone and lose, you then owe the person you sued the amount you sued them for. IMO that would put an end to a lot of frivolous lawsuits.
 
And that's what's wrong with this word we live in. The mentality that if you don't like what someone says to you, you can sue them for damages....... regardless if you incurred any actual damages. IMO there should be a Federal law along the lines of ....... if you sue someone and lose, you then owe the person you sued the amount you sued them for. IMO that would put an end to a lot of frivolous lawsuits.
Respectfully, I think you're conflating 2 different issues.

When a vendor misrepresents something or changes the terms after representing what they are, that's essentially "bait and switch". You've seen yourself how damages may be incurred as a result - for example, while I'd never do such a thing, there are several people on this forum who have sold their family vehicles in preparation for the delivery of their new Land Cruiser. One guy even admitted to forking over the cash before his vehicle had even hit the dealership.

If a dealer refrains from committing to a price in advance, that's one thing, but to accept your deposit based on an understanding that you'll be paying MSRP, only to change their mind later because they (allegedly) had a better offer is not an ethical way to conduct business. She should be entitled to that vehicle at MSRP, if that indeed was the initial agreement.
 
Respectfully, I think you're conflating 2 different issues.

When a vendor misrepresents something or changes the terms after representing what they are, that's essentially "bait and switch". You've seen yourself how damages may be incurred as a result - for example, while I'd never do such a thing, there are several people on this forum who have sold their family vehicles in preparation for the delivery of their new Land Cruiser. One guy even admitted to forking over the cash before his vehicle had even hit the dealership.

If a dealer refrains from committing to a price in advance, that's one thing, but to accept your deposit based on an understanding that you'll be paying MSRP, only to change their mind later because they (allegedly) had a better offer is not an ethical way to conduct business. She should be entitled to that vehicle at MSRP, if that indeed was the initial agreement.
So I too paid a deposit with the understanding of MSRP (no purchase agreement at this point, basically just on a list), only to have the salesman contact me and inform me that there would be a substantial additional dealer markup. At that point the only actual damage I incurred was frustration and disappointment.

I had a choice..... accept the new price or walk away, I accepted the new price and got it in writing (purchase agreement). So IMO, I'm not "entitled" to any compensation.

Going forward from this point (signed purchase agreement) should the price increase, I do believe I'd have grounds to take legal action to receive the vehicle for the price annotated in the purchase agreement.

"change their mind later because they (allegedly) had a better offer is not an ethical way to conduct business." I agree it's unethical.

OK, pretty much done with this subject. I have my opinion and others don't have to agree with it and I'm ok with that.
 
I just refuse to believe that unless actual damages have been incurred, you can be sued for "word of mouth". A printed, virtual ad or contract/purchase agreement that stated something like "final out the door price" or "all inclusive price" is "X" dollars and then "X" dollars is added to that figure at the time of signing, I agree is illegal. Every advertisement I've seen on Toyota's site states "call dealer for price".
At the same time you need to unfortunately have laws in place that mandate certain practices be followed. In AK, the dealership MUST display the total asking price (that MUST include ANY additional dealer markup beyond MSRP) prominently on the vehicle in a clear to see place. And for pre owned, must prominently display the State of AK (SOA) Buyers Guide. If the dealership is shown not to engage in these practices, the SOA may sue, I believe on the behalf of the consumer. Not sure where any monetary damages would go to. Prolly the,…SOA, lol.
 
At the same time you need to unfortunately have laws in place that mandate certain practices be followed. In AK, the dealership MUST display the total asking price (that MUST include ANY additional dealer markup beyond MSRP) prominently on the vehicle in a clear to see place. And for pre owned, must prominently display the State of AK (SOA) Buyers Guide. If the dealership is shown not to engage in these practices, the SOA may sue, I believe on the behalf of the consumer. Not sure where any monetary damages would go to. Prolly the,…SOA, lol.
Makes perfect sense for AK, as it's probably quite the drive from one place to the next. And you're probably right, any monies would go back into the state coffers.
 
Not sure what your paperwork says, but if the $10K was for some sort of add on package (window tint, nitrogen filled tires, etc...) that's technically not a 'mark up' even though it's effectively the same thing.

Either way, it seems like $10K doesn't matter much to you so if you are happy with the car I would just enjoy it and move on.
 
Either way, it seems like $10K doesn't matter much to you so if you are happy with the car I would just enjoy it and move on.
I would assume she is paying cash for it, like many of us are doing (a Landcruiser tradition it seems), so it's likely not the money issue per se. It's the fact the dealer misrepresented / lied to her.
 
I would assume she is paying cash for it, like many of us are doing (a Landcruiser tradition it seems), so it's likely not the money issue per se. It's the fact the dealer misrepresented / lied to her.
We don’t really know the full context for what was said and what was charged. Dealer contracts usually have language like ‘this is the entire agreement and nothing else is promised’ to avoid conflicts between verbal discussions and what is written in the agreement.

The reality is paying $10K straight ADM to take delivery in May when virtually every other LC is delayed until at least July isn’t all that unreasonable.

It’s ok to have some buyers remorse at this point, but IMHO trying to recover ADM a month after delivery is probably going to be a waste of time.
 
We don’t really know the full context for what was said and what was charged. Dealer contracts usually have language like ‘this is the entire agreement and nothing else is promised’ to avoid conflicts between verbal discussions and what is written in the agreement.

The reality is paying $10K straight ADM to take delivery in May when virtually every other LC is delayed until at least July isn’t all that unreasonable.

It’s ok to have some buyers remorse at this point, but IMHO trying to recover ADM a month after delivery is probably going to be a waste of time.
I agree, She has it in her possession and is enjoying it.
And we don't know the details.
I, personally, wouldn't pay the extra $10k to get it right now. I'd wait a few months if necessary.
But then again, I have enough vehicles and don't need one this instant. Plus, I am tight.
 
Not sure what your paperwork says, but if the $10K was for some sort of add on package (window tint, nitrogen filled tires, etc...) that's technically not a 'mark up' even though it's effectively the same thing.

Either way, it seems like $10K doesn't matter much to you so if you are happy with the car I would just enjoy it and move on.
It was noted as We owes $10,000. On my defense I went to see what they would pay for my Hylander and it came in while I was sitting there. The sales person had told me verbally there was no mark up. That $77000 was base and the rest was for add ons. So I don't have that on text. Everyone was so excited and running out to look at it. I blindly signed the paperwork. I want to know if the new ones are getting the markup. If not, I will be registering a complaint.
 
It was noted as We owes $10,000. On my defense I went to see what they would pay for my Hylander and it came in while I was sitting there. The sales person had told me verbally there was no mark up. That $77000 was base and the rest was for add ons. So I don't have that on text. Everyone was so excited and running out to look at it. I blindly signed the paperwork. I want to know if the new ones are getting the markup. If not, I will be registering a complaint.
If it's helpful, I'm also in Little Rock and secured one last week (Land Cruiser Trim - mid-level) at Landers with a very professional and transparent salesman for MSRP (and no add-on BS). Also looked at a first edition in Hot Springs that had just arrived and the salesman tried to initially add a $10K markup, but when I walked away, he said "OK, we'll do MSRP".
 
That $77000 was base and the rest was for add ons.
So yes, it sounds like they were technically being honest and there was no 'mark up' (aka ADM). It's debatable whether $10K worth of dealer add ons is a good value, but you did receive something for the $10K that a normal LC from the factory would not have.

Most people won't pay ADM, but some will and given the current circumstances $10K isn't an unreasonable number to take delivery in May.

Personally, I would take this as a lesson learned and enjoy the car in good health.
 
If it's helpful, I'm also in Little Rock and secured one last week (Land Cruiser Trim - mid-level) at Landers with a very professional and transparent salesman for MSRP (and no add-on BS). Also looked at a first edition in Hot Springs that had just arrived and the salesman tried to initially add a $10K markup, but when I walked away, he said "OK, we'll do MSRP".
Wow I am upset now
 
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