Decisions, decisions, ...

[katekebo]

So my 2024 LC 1958 just crossed the 6,500 miles line. Overall, it has not been a bad vehicle, but there are several things that I am not fully happy about:

• Comfort: ride is pretty bad, and while better than hard-core off-road vehicles like the Jeep Wrangler, it's really not suitable for long highway trips. After a couple of hours on average roads, my back and kidneys really miss a more decent suspension.
• Noise: Noisy in the city, noisy at interstate speeds. It's reasonably quiet between 40 and 60 mph, but in the city the harsh engine noise ever time I accelerate gets on my nerves, while at any speed above 60 mph the wind and road noise make longer drives very tiresome.
• Weak engine: reasonably peppy when driving alone, as soon as connected to a 3,500 lb trailers, the engine struggles a lot. I'm concerned that the little engine will die very soon if subjected to frequent towing.
• Lack of cargo space and storage for small things: with two medium size dog crates in the back that is no space left for any luggage. The high trunk floor makes loading heavy objects a major exercise in weightlifting. And the lack of storage space in cabin for all the small things is pathetic. There isn't even space for sunglasses.

I was driving by a Chevrolet dealership and decided to test drive a Tahoe. What a day-and-night difference. The Tahoe beats the LC in every aspect. Ride is super comfortable, as good as a luxury sedan. Cornering is about the same as the LC, but surprisingly turning radius is actually tighter in spite of being much longer. The interior is whisper quiet at all speeds - nice, low purr of the V8 engine, and zero wind and road noise. The transmission is super smooth, you basically can't feel the shifts. The seats are wider and softer (I have always found Toyota seats to be midget-sized). All-around space is fantastic, rear passenger have tons more legroom. And with the 3rd row down, even with the dog crates, there is plenty of space for luggage for a week-long road trip. The base LT model can tow 7,400 lb, and I don't expect the big 5.3L V8 to struggle under load like the little 4-cyl in the LC. Fuel economy is somewhat worse, but a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that actual cost of fuel will be about the same (Tahoe runs on regular gas). GM spare parts are much cheaper than Toyota. And last, but not least, no turbo and hybrid BS - just a plain old-school large displacement V8 and automatic transmission.

While the Tahoe isn't an off-road SUV, it does come with fully automatic 4WD which should be plenty sufficient for occasional gravel road trips or snowy highways.

And the dealer is willing to sell me one for $5k out-of-pocket after trade-in of the LC. Tempting.

 

[Mtn40]

Sounds like for your use the Tahoe is better. I'm guessing you came from an FJC and wanted to stick with Toyota?
Though it would be nice if the 250 were better at some of those things, I bought my 250 to do things a Tahoe can't.

This part made me laugh:

The seats are wider and softer (I have always found Toyota seats to be midget-sized).

I think Toyota seats are too wide and too flat. One of the few small gripes I have is I wish the 250 seats were about 2" narrower and had way bigger bolsters. I'd swap in any Subaru seat if I could (5'11" skinny dude here).
The 250 seats have been comfortable for 3 hour drives, but they do nothing to keep you in place when cornering or off road.

 

[katekebo]

Sounds like for your use the Tahoe is better. I'm guessing you came from an FJC and wanted to stick with Toyota?
Though it would be nice if the 250 were better at some of those things, I bought my 250 to do things a Tahoe can't.

This part made me laugh:

I think Toyota seats are too wide and too flat. One of the few small gripes I have is I wish the 250 seats were about 2" narrower and had way bigger bolsters. I'd swap in any Subaru seat if I could (5'11" skinny dude here).
The 250 seats have been comfortable for 3 hour drives, but they do nothing to keep you in place when cornering or off road.

I sold the FJ years ago. My last car was a 2018 Highlander.
As for the seats, I'm 5'7, 155 lb, but I find all Toyota (and Lexus) seats to be very uncomfortable. Narrow and extremely short, with no thigh support. The seat bottom cushion should be at least a couple of inches longer, but I guess it would be a problem for short-legged Asians. Also, the seat back has a strange shape, pushing on the upper part of the back and shoulders, curving the spine forward, forcing the torso to be leaning all the time. No amount of lumbar support corrects it. My wife's Lexus has the same problem. Maybe I got spoiled with the BMW I had some time ago, but Japanese car seats are no match for European or domestic brands.

 

[TimHerald]

Limited experience here with my LC, but I came from 12 years in a Tahoe. Tahoe definitely rides more like a big heavy car and obviously has lots of power in that V8.
It’s big on the inside as well, but to me- I like the LC tons better. It’s all about your use though, and sounds like the Tahoe may really fit your bill. I am either around town or off road hunting, I do ln’t need tons of room in back except in hunting season, and the LC has plenty for me. My kids are grown, so until they have kids, I rarely have anyone in my backseat, and I never used the 3rd row in my Tahoe. Stored them until I sold it. I rarely tow anything. My Tahoe was a great vehicle with very few problems (I am always on top of maintenance) but was not great off road. That said, with 150k miles, it had a number of things going wrong that were going to have to be addressed and cost some $, and that’s why I decided it was time to trade it in.

 

[Mtn40]

The seat bottom cushion should be at least a couple of inches longer,

I hear you there. The thigh support extension on my LC premium was one of the things I was really excited about having and I do love it.

 

[colfishnski]

The Tahoe is a very different vehicle. It may well fit you much better. I'm sure it's better at towing, I'm sure it's quieter, I'm sure the ride is much more plush, I'm sure the seats are more cushy, and yes, it's bigger, in fact much bigger. It's more the competitor to the Sequoia than the LC. That might be worth a test drive too, though they're going to be harder to find and more expensive due to demand.

I have the LC premium with leather. I'm 6' and I like the seats a lot. I find it very good on road trips, the suspension just a little harsh around my pot holed town but not on road trips. I don't tow so the motor is plenty strong, and yup it's pretty noisy, but actually less than my expectations. I have one dog crate and it's plenty roomy, and I may be the exception but I get a solid 22 to 23mpg. So far so good for me.

Cars are ridiculously expensive, you definately should get what's best for you. Tahoe is an excellent large SUV, and if you need the room and don't see much true off road use, then hell.. go for it. If I needed a giant SUV I'd be in a Sequoia TRD pro, but I'm a toyota guy..

 

[supernova]

I think the era of big 7 seater SUV is over unless you need space for 7 occupants as a must.
The big 7 seater SUVs were in huge demand in the late 90's and 2000's and were comfortable also (I have the first gen sequoia and usually gravitate to driving that than my LC until LC gets scuffed up a bit). In the end for me LC is mid size and lot easier to drive and park around.
Also for me having head room was important and LC had the perfect headroom and the LandCruiser Badge

 

[mayonayze]

Hope that’s not the same engine that’s cratering in all the new Escalades

 

[katekebo]

Hope that’s not the same engine that’s cratering in all the new Escalades

No. The one under recall is the 6.2L. Tahoe comes with 3 engine options: 5.3 V8, 6.2 V8 and 3.5 inline-6 diesel. The 5.3 V8 is bulletproof. Very old school design. 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod.

 

[teghogh]

Tahoe is a better car by all measures. The z71 also looks great. Your mpg calculation is off by 50 percent minimum. You will be spending atleast 50% more in fuel on a v8 Tahoe. I was actually looking to get a z71 or the gmc version and if you have a family of 4+ that is 100% a better decision. Now if you want your mind to be blown, drive an x5 that is 100 percent a better choice relative to all competition for 99 percent of people

One thing folks need to remember is to that lc is in the hardcore 4x4 off-roader category and is compared with jeep, bronco, gx and defender. They all drive reasonably the same , similar cargo and people hauling capabilities, and the cool factor that is unmatched by every other category.

 

[katekebo]

Tahoe is a better car by all measures. The z71 also looks great. Your mpg calculation is off by 50 percent minimum. You will be spending atleast 50% more in fuel on a v8 Tahoe. I was actually looking to get a z71 or the gmc version and if you have a family of 4+ that is 100% a better decision. Now if you want your mind to be blown, drive an x5 that is 100 percent a better choice relative to all competition for 99 percent of people

One thing folks need to remember is to that lc is in the hardcore 4x4 off-roader category and is compared with jeep, bronco, gx and defender. They all drive reasonably the same , similar cargo and people hauling capabilities, and the cool factor that is unmatched by every other category.

I used to own a 5 Series BMW wagon. Great driver's vehicle but no, thanks. Too expensive to maintain, customer service sucks. It was the most "reliable" vehicle I ever had (out of 19 I have owned so far) - reliably every 12 months something would fail resulting in an expensive repair. They are OK while under warranty, although the hassle of dealing with the repairs is a pain, but once warranty is over they are a bottomless pit to dump your money into.

 

[colfishnski]

I used to own a 5 Series BMW wagon. Great driver's vehicle but no, thanks. Too expensive to maintain, customer service sucks. It was the most "reliable" vehicle I ever had (out of 19 I have owned so far) - reliably every 12 months something would fail resulting in an expensive repair. They are OK while under warranty, although the hassle of dealing with the repairs is a pain, but once warranty is over they are a bottomless pit to dump your money into.

+1. I had a 5 series also. Loved driving it, great motor, but the cost of ownership was rediculous and BMW dealerships are like some head stuck in the air exclusive club that vacuum money from your wallet. Never again. The LC premium is crude in comparison but so much better fit for me.

 

[TakaraLC]

No. The one under recall is the 6.2L. Tahoe comes with 3 engine options: 5.3 V8, 6.2 V8 and 3.5 inline-6 diesel. The 5.3 V8 is bulletproof. Very old school design. 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod.

355 HP and 383 lb-ft of torque from a 5.3L engine . No thank you.

 

[katekebo]

355 HP and 383 lb-ft of torque from a 5.3L engine . No thank you.

It's more than what you get in the LC, and it will certainly outlast the over-complicated, over-stressed 2.4L inline 4-cyl turbo.

 

[Doggman1525]

Sometimes you gotta eat some apples to find out you like oranges. My in-laws have a Yukon Denali - its got more gremlins than a movie theater on Christmas eve but there's no arguing that it's not more comfortable - like you took your living room and put it on wheels - and that big V-8 never breaks a sweat.

 

[katekebo]

Sometimes you gotta eat some apples to find out you like oranges. My in-laws have a Yukon Denali - its got more gremlins than a movie theater on Christmas eve but there's no arguing that it's not more comfortable - like you took your living room and put it on wheels - and that big V-8 never breaks a sweat.

Now that you mention it, the problems I had with brands that are typically considered "unreliable" (BMW, VW, Renault) have always been minor "gremlins". Sometimes expensive to fix, but never serious enough to prevent me from safely drive the vehicle until I could take it in for repairs. A stuck sunroof, broken lock actuator, broken turn sign "flasher" - mostly things like that. Annoying, but never disabling.
On the other hand, the ONLY vehicle that left me stranded and ended up with a MAJOR repair has been a Toyota that required a transmission and transfer case replacement at 40k miles. And another Toyota I owned also required transfer case replacement at 50k miles because it got stuck in 4WD and would not revert to 2WD. So looking at purely at number of issues, Toyota looks better, but considering the seriousness, cost (and potential consequences) of the failure, Toyotas have been the worst.
I'd rather prefer to deal with a small, inconsequential electric problem that being stranded in the middle of nowhere like thousands of the new Tundra owners with sudden catastrophic engine failures.

 

[Doggman1525]

Now that you mention it, the problems I had with brands that are typically considered "unreliable" (BMW, VW, Renault) have always been minor "gremlins". Sometimes expensive to fix, but never serious enough to prevent me from safely drive the vehicle until I could take it in for repairs. A stuck sunroof, broken lock actuator, broken turn sign "flasher" - mostly things like that. Annoying, but never disabling.
On the other hand, the ONLY vehicle that left me stranded and ended up with a MAJOR repair has been a Toyota that required a transmission and transfer case replacement at 40k miles. And another Toyota I owned also required transfer case replacement at 50k miles because it got stuck in 4WD and would not revert to 2WD. So looking at purely at number of issues, Toyota looks better, but considering the seriousness, cost (and potential consequences) of the failure, Toyotas have been the worst.
I'd rather prefer to deal with a small, inconsequential electric problem that being stranded in the middle of nowhere like thousands of the new Tundra owners with sudden catastrophic engine failures.

Risk bias and anecdotal affirmation are almost always more compelling than statistical evidence is to the human brain. I claim no exception.

 

[Impatient]

Tahoe vs LC 250 is a comparison of two different classes of vehicles with very different purposes. And comparing a 1958 with a Tahoe on the basis of comfort definitely won’t end in the 1958’s favor.

If you’re not planning on overlanding or off-roading any, and you’re not sometime who is going to own a vehicle for 6+ years, and there is no disadvantage in relative size (the Tahoe being considerably larger), plus you plan on towing a trailer regularly, then the Tahoe is the no-brainer choice for you. We have one, great vehicle, gets the kids around well, very solid up to somewhere between 100–120K miles (you will have transmission issues around then). It’s not good for trail use, but it’s good for hauling a lot of children and gear around.

 

[katekebo]

Risk bias and anecdotal affirmation are almost always more compelling than statistical evidence is to the human brain. I claim no exception.

Absolutely. Humans will always find evidence to support their beliefs and reject any evidence to the contrary. Just look at antivaxxers, people who don't believe in evolution, etc. No matter how much evidence you present them, they will also find that ONE exception to reject overwhelming facts.

 

[TakaraLC]

It's more than what you get in the LC, and it will certainly outlast the over-complicated, over-stressed 2.4L inline 4-cyl turbo.

LC has 326 HP and 465lb.-ft torque while being ~500lbs lighter…

Plus, nothing with a Chevy badge will outlast a Toyota.