Can I tow this travel trailer?

[DarthAckbarious]

I'm wondering if I'd be able to safely tow a Grand Design 161BH travel trailer. UVW is 4,784. Hitch weight 524. GVWR is 5,500. We'd have 2 adults weight 150 and 175 lbs, 2 small children and some cargo for short camping trips.

 

[rubycred]

Check out this really helpful reply from @MVP to my post about taking an Airstream camping about how to calculate: Airstream Camping in SF Bay Area in October 2024

 

[Area 51]

Simple answer, yes you can, but you should not.
Bigger = better when the towing vehicle is not equal to or smaller than what is being towed.

 

[DarthAckbarious]

Simple answer, yes you can, but you should not.
Bigger = better when the towing vehicle is not equal to or smaller than what is being towed.

Can you elaborate on why I should not? I'm a novice in this area. Would I risk damaging the LC or is it more just a general safety issue?

 

[Area 51]

Both.
weights at velocity, its pretty simple, or not E = MV2, energy = mass times velocity squared.
Even with trailer brakes, which help allot the wheelbase and weight of the towing vehicle ideally needs to be higher than the towed vehicle for intrinsic control in high stress or emergency conditions.
Add bad weather and road conditions, oye vey you coulda had a good life and bigger vehicle.
After i cleared a number of horse trailer accidents in NorCal the CHP asked me to do some PR trailer inspections where we had several horses, they knew how screwed up some of the big mouthed horse trailer owners were and even more stoopid.
I did, was met with a good degree of stoopidity and stubborn bullshit.
About 3 weeks after there was a 2 horse trailer accident on the freeway fairly close by, they called me and asked me to invite those fools to the accident scene while they started the clean up of 5000 lbs of now ground and pieced out horsemeat.
I did, and proceeded to watch crying and throwing up for about an hour. Poor ladies, get it now?
My not even aged meat jokes and its going to be tough after BBQed did not go over well at all.
I have a Ram 3500 4wd, diesel, set up and very capable for towing, no matter what it is.
Arguably you don't need that much, however when towing especially where you and I live, bigger is better it is no more complicated than that.
Nowadays the OEM tow ratings are way to high vs what is really safe and recommended.
Start with the OHP they might have some brochures, or talk to the truck officers they tend to be very informed and good, glad to help.
Those of us that have stacked up entire families on the side of the road know how fast and how bad it can go way fuckin bad.
You could always rent for the big trips.
Error on the safe side is my recommendation.

 

[Code54]

Area 51 is correct. The weight and size of the tow vehicle make a BIG difference. I commonly scale out around 20,000-21,000 with the bumper pull trailer on my ¾-ton truck. It does fine but is getting toward the top of the range for a ¾-ton. Now I have scaled at 15K with a ½ truck and it is a LOT less stable and capable. Both trucks are legal and within their weight ratings, but the added size, power, and components the ¾-ton "feel" 100 times better towing.

Anytime you have a bumper pull trailer set up, it has a lower tow rating than a gooseneck or 5th wheel. The latter puts the weight over the rear axle and inward on the vehicle. This gives more control with heavy weight. Then you have a lot of weight pushing on the further point of the vehicle (rear most spot on the bumper), so you are fighting leverage.
This is why an 8k truck can tow a trailer much heavier than the tow vehicle with a 5th wheel, and is rated much lower for a bumper pull trailer.

The LC is really small in the towing world. I think it is great with 3-4k on it and is safe. Now when you have 6K pushing on that same vehicle, it becomes a different story. There also is a big difference towing the same trailer somewhere like the Appalachian or Rocky Mountains compared to driving across FL or the flat land of Ohio. Add bad weather or emergency maneuvers, and things could get ugly with heavy weight behind a smaller vehicle.

 

[APIOQM]

Based on what I'm reading in this thread, I should steer clear of F-150s towing twice their curb weight.

 

[PDPete]

GVWR is 5,500

Which is obviously quite close to the advertised capacity of 6000 lbs... probably fine for very short trips across town if you need to move the trailer (for example), but personally, I would be very hesitant to tow that much weight for any sort of considerable distance...definitely not if the terrain is hilly or into mountains.

While others have mentioned the dangers of trailer weight vs vehicle weight, I'll also add that you'd be putting a lot more strain on the engine than normal as well, and would have to carefully watch temp gauges, and risk shortening the life of your engine in general.

Hitch weight 524.... We'd have 2 adults weight 150 and 175 lbs, 2 small children and some cargo for short camping trips

So, not only would your trailer be close to towing capacity, but you'd also be pretty close to the vehicle's payload capacity as well (which the hitch weight factors into).

I think Area 51 puts it best:

Simple answer, yes you can, but you should not

 

[ferrari1898]

I'm wondering if I'd be able to safely tow a Grand Design 161BH travel trailer. UVW is 4,784. Hitch weight 524. GVWR is 5,500. We'd have 2 adults weight 150 and 175 lbs, 2 small children and some cargo for short camping trips.

IMO, Yes. We tow a 3500lb (similar size camper w/o a slide) camper without any issues. This camper is definitely getting near the limit which may require you to use the truck lanes going up some mountains.

If you are not towing that frequently and that far, that also helps. We had a Subaru Ascent and started to have the CVT Transmission starting to go at 20k in part because about 7k was towing. While that car can tow 5k, it was never intended to be done that much.

The Land Cruiser is better suited for it and should have no problem; except that you will be needing to fill up a lot (with premium fuel).

 

[MVP]

Can you elaborate on why I should not? I'm a novice in this area. Would I risk damaging the LC or is it more just a general safety issue?

You risk potentially dying.

Your hitch weight on a 5,500 lbs. trailer is 825. Never trust the manufacturers hitch weight numbers.

Your payload is probably around 1020 lbs. like mine.

1020 - 825=195 lbs of payload left.

You can fit one person Inside the vehicle to still be at legal towing limits. If you wanted your family like you said you will be over the payload limits of your vehicle.

It’s gonna put too much stress on your vehicle and you will be illegally overloading your vehicle. Should anything happen insurance isn’t going to cover you if you guys make it out alive.

 

[Code54]

Should anything happen insurance isn’t going to cover you if you guys make it out alive.

That is incorrect. If someone runs a stop sign, insurance still covers it. Just because someone did something that is a traffic infraction, it does not mean insurance will not cover the accident. MANY MANY accidents are caused by someone breaking a law (driving too close, driving too fast for conditions, an equipment violation, etc.), and it does not terminate insurance coverage.

But, I still would try not to overload any vehicle.

 

[Area 51]

Consider this;
Trailer A is centerline connected to trailer B. Both equally weighted, same axles, wheels, everything equals, going 60mph , obviously in the same direction. Trailer A has the power and control, main brakes, trailer B is un powered, load of trailer A.
Trailer A with the help of trailer B's auto brakes need's to stop the entire set up.
Not opposite and equal, additive, see the difference? Trailer A tries to slow, now trailer B is pushing Trailer A, laws of physics rule, inertia laws, rot row, can't stop. Oh dear is that my back end coming around, oopsy everything is sideways now, wonder how this is going to work out, yadda yadda.

 

[Mtn40]

A tries to slow, now trailer B is pushing Trailer A, laws of physics rule, inertia laws, rot row, can't stop. Oh dear is that my back end coming around, oopsy everything is sideways now

In my understanding of towing, in your example above, for that to happen either trailer sway got extreme or the trailer brakes locked up, right? Is there another possibility? Maybe going around a corner and the trailer loses traction or pushes hard enough to spin the whole rig to the outside of the turn?

In an ideal tow rig/trailer setup, what percentage of braking is the tow rig doing and what percentage of braking is the trailer doing when you need to stop?

 

[Area 51]

In my understanding of towing, in your example above, for that to happen either trailer sway got extreme or the trailer brakes locked up, right? Is there another possibility? Maybe going around a corner and the trailer loses traction or pushes hard enough to spin the whole rig to the outside of the turn?

In an ideal tow rig/trailer setup, what percentage of braking is the tow rig doing and what percentage of braking is the trailer doing when you need to stop?

Clearly this is roughed in example. The details and calcs could take a page or two. There are many variations and variables that create disasters. Don't know the ideal ratios, easy to look up, i try to be big bigger vs whatever i am towing. That being said i have a good sized tow vehicle just for that.

 

[RUN-8]

@Area 51 and others advising against this are correct.

In addition to the issues of mass of the towing vehicle, and the leverage issues of bumper pull; also consider wheelbase of the towing vehicle: 112.2” isn’t a particularly long wheelbase. Longer wheelbases are more stable and from a leverage standpoint are much less likely to get “wagged” around by the trailer in tow. That trailer is pretty good sized for a fairly small and short tow vehicle. Even with a weight distributing hitch with sway control it will probably be a real handful in a crosswind or when meeting or passing semi trucks.

How short of a trip are you looking at? Fuel economy is going to suffer and the fuel tank under the LC is not large, so factor that in as well.

If you’re really determined to tow a camper that size it’s probably time to look at a larger tow rig with a higher payload, longer wheelbase, and a bit more continuous power output.

 

[MSINAL]

I'm wondering if I'd be able to safely tow a Grand Design 161BH travel trailer. UVW is 4,784. Hitch weight 524. GVWR is 5,500. We'd have 2 adults weight 150 and 175 lbs, 2 small children and some cargo for short camping trips.

You can find lighter campers with bit less space that are safe to tow with LC. We were towing a camper at the limits with another vehicle (no children in it) and it was properly miserable on the interstate. Enough so that we promptly downsized a bit to Tag aerodynamic camper (other was a cheaply made brick of poo). Sooo much less stressful and safer towing now.

 

[ferrari1898]

@Area 51 and others advising against this are correct.

In addition to the issues of mass of the towing vehicle, and the leverage issues of bumper pull; also consider wheelbase of the towing vehicle: 112.2” isn’t a particularly long wheelbase. Longer wheelbases are more stable and from a leverage standpoint are much less likely to get “wagged” around by the trailer in tow. That trailer is pretty good sized for a fairly small and short tow vehicle. Even with a weight distributing hitch with sway control it will probably be a real handful in a crosswind or when meeting or passing semi trucks.

How short of a trip are you looking at? Fuel economy is going to suffer and the fuel tank under the LC is not large, so factor that in as well.

If you’re really determined to tow a camper that size it’s probably time to look at a larger tow rig with a higher payload, longer wheelbase, and a bit more continuous power output.

I was a little concerned with the wheelbase, but after coming from a Ridgeline (12+ longer wheelbase) the Land Cruiser's handling is fine while towing IF you have a weight distribution hitch. The suspension setup results in some pretty noticeable squat and the front end was VERY light on the highway (on a relatively short weekend trip). With the WDH the Land Cruiser is flat and very stable even as big rigs pass you and/or driving 75mph.

The torque from the turbo / electric is great. Previous tow vehicles have been rated for 5k and I felt that was every pound and then some they could take; I have no concern with the Toyota.

The only performance issue I encounter towing a 3500lb camper (about the same size as the 161BH) is after (frequently) filling up and forgetting to (re)enable the towing mode. Fuel economy is bad. We average around 12mpg, but previous to vehicles were almost identical. I will note we have all season 18" tires and not the mud tires.

Realistically we have to stop every 200 or so miles or 2.5 hours. Living with a 4.5 year old, that is pushing the limit before we need a potty, snack, or a 5 minute stop to change things up. The one thing I do not like with the range is that for a trip that is 200 or so miles away, we have to fill up to avoid arriving on fumes. When traveling to the Great Smokey Mountains, we are filling up after 115 miles in Asheville because fuel is spotty past that. At least for us, on longer trips (Florida for example) the range is acceptable.

 

[ferrari1898]

I will also add, while the GVWR is with (barely) the Land Cruiser's limits; it is a tick near the edge than I would like. At a recent RV show I was willing to entertain a new camper around 4500lb dry, but everything we saw that was a significant upgrade was going to be 7k+.

 

[MSINAL]

I added airbags to rear springs of our short wheelbase "tow vehicle" wrangler and it vastly improved stability, run them at 15lbs. Also allows adjustment of vehicle level which has many benefits, i plan on doing the same to LC. It just makes sense if you tow or run fully loaded and is inexpensive.

Caveat: If you need full articulation in the rear axle then airbags may limit travel. The lowest psi recommended is 8psi, you cant run them uninflated.

 

[Area 51]

The wheel base comments are very important as well, sorry left that out.
Someone i know recently asked me why the dually stops so well, i said look at the big ass back end, lots of rubber on the ground, massive amount of brakes, long wheel base, big ole heavy diesel thing with 70g of fuel, get it. They got it.